composer's talents

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composer's talents

Postby serge urtizberea » Thu Nov 16, 2000 1:06 am

Many people think Mozart was the "greatest" composer because he was able to write, like, 700 pieces in some 30 yrs. I have a problem with that, though. I'm not particularly fond of Mozart, but I do admire his talents. He cleary was a truly gifted individual, but how much did he do for c.m.? Not that much, I think.<BR>Beethoven, on the other hand, (excuse my horrifyingly apparent bias!) had a much harder time composing, regularly rewriting pieces and spending months and years working on a single work, smoothing out its bugs. The results, though, are much more appealing to me than Mozart's. <BR>The question I pose is, how important were inborn talents to composers and the music they wrote. Were all composers born with certain natural musical abilities? Does Mozart get all his adulation from his music or his skill?
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Re: composer's talents

Postby jrs » Thu Nov 16, 2000 2:21 pm

serge--<BR> In my opinion inborn, inate talent is crucial, a must in the development of a sustainable musical vision, one that will live on peacefully and persistantly unscathed by the sometime humiliating ravages of indiscriminate time. Whether Paul McCartney, Lennon, U2, Beethoven or Mozart, I think all composers were born with natuarl, inate musical abilities. And does Mozart get all his adulation from his music, or his skill? To me the two are so intrinsically involved so as to be inseperable. They're two halves of one outcome.And how about Bach's fugues. These are all things academia can teach, but inate musical vision uses it rather than it using the composer. The only example I can come up with now to clarify my point is the difference I perceive in Handel's concerti grossi op. #6, and Corelli's concerti grossi op.#6. Handel using the procedures of his time, in this work sounds alive and spotaneous to me. A fraught intuition seems to emanate freely from the schackles of the technique of the time. On the other hand, comparitively speaking, Corelli sounds like a textbook to me. Handle here has hold of the stuff transient in rainbows--yet it leaves a lasting imprint on one as if it were the spoor of some passing, wild animal. Corelli sits in my mind like a stiff, dried fact, like some stiff pedagogue full of all the facts, yet miserably lacking in musical spirit. The difference between the two can't be taught. It's instinct and intuition, something that works so fast in the moment of creation, it slips past the textbooks as quietly as the twilight sneaks past on its way to the night. Sincerely, jrs
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Re: composer's talents

Postby jrs » Sat Nov 18, 2000 11:00 am

You have a knack, serge, at posting interesting and educational posts. This might be discursively off the topic, but oh well. That best composer topic where Kevin chimed in categorizing composers as perfectors or inventors was very enlightening to me, fraught with a simplicity that goes a long way. Later...
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Re: composer's talents

Postby maggiP » Mon Dec 04, 2000 5:11 pm

I too agree that Mozart was highly overplayed and perhaps a little overrated. His operas were his best contribution, I feel, but for listening, I'd much rather listen to Haydn (both brothers were extremely talented.) What do you think....
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Re: composer's talents

Postby blmalmat » Wed Dec 13, 2000 11:28 pm

I like Beethoven's music for its boldness. The "heroic" period of life shows itself in his music. His mark is unmistakable ... no one else could have written what he wrote.<P>I like Mozart for the delicacy of his expression. He lived in a slightly different time, but the influences on his life were very different ...<P>Mozart wrote for the royal courts. Beethoven wrote for the upper- and middle-class public.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by serge urtizberea:<BR><B>Many people think Mozart was the "greatest" composer because he was able to write, like, 700 pieces in some 30 yrs. I have a problem with that, though. I'm not particularly fond of Mozart, but I do admire his talents. He cleary was a truly gifted individual, but how much did he do for c.m.? Not that much, I think.<BR>Beethoven, on the other hand, (excuse my horrifyingly apparent bias!) had a much harder time composing, regularly rewriting pieces and spending months and years working on a single work, smoothing out its bugs. The results, though, are much more appealing to me than Mozart's. <BR>The question I pose is, how important were inborn talents to composers and the music they wrote. Were all composers born with certain natural musical abilities? Does Mozart get all his adulation from his music or his skill?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>
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Re: composer's talents

Postby blmalmat » Wed Dec 13, 2000 11:34 pm

I see Haydn as the inventor of the forms that he and others (including Mozart and Beethoven) used.<P>But his works are less inspired, I think ... Haydn's music is music. It expresses some feeling, but never very strongly (exception ... the piano sonatas).<P>Mozart's work is more expressive than Haydn's. We feel Mozart's work. <P>Beethoven's works almost speak out loud. He says so much with his music.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maggiP:<BR><B>I too agree that Mozart was highly overplayed and perhaps a little overrated. His operas were his best contribution, I feel, but for listening, I'd much rather listen to Haydn (both brothers were extremely talented.) What do you think....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>
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Re: composer's talents

Postby LVBfurimmer » Sat Dec 16, 2000 1:21 pm

I believe Mozart was the most natural at what he did. But Beethoven will always be the greater one. Beethoven was the first to challenge music. Mozart really never accomplished anything. Beethoven accomplished everything. Mozart was just a prodigy, Beethoven is a legend.
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Re: composer's talents

Postby serge urtizberea » Sun Dec 17, 2000 7:08 am

Beautifully said! I'm choking up just thinking about Ludwig today on his baptismal day. I intend to get pleasantly drunk and crank some fond-memories-inducing Beethoven--right after the Simpsons at 8.
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Re: composer's talents

Postby ~Leslie » Sun Dec 17, 2000 8:10 am

Not to get flamed to a crisp for saying this, but oft times I think of Beethoven as Mozart with an attitude. ~#:^<P>Which suits me just fine cos I got an attitude as well. <P>Happy Beethoven's birthday to everyone in this room, I look fwd to learning a whole <BR>lot more about the classical masters<BR>and reading everyone's take on music.~Les
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