How Sad

[BigJon@Work]

http://www.playbillarts.com/news/article/3850.html
If Europe weren't so darn leftist, I'd move there in an instant.

[Shapley]

Sad, indeed. I'm amazed at how spineless the schools have become when faced with such ignorance. The principal and the school board should have stood up to the people. I hope that teacher prevails in her efforts, although it sounds like she should look for work in a school district with more backbone.

V/R
Shapley

If anyone's interested, here's the info on the video she showed:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6301666518/sr=8-1/qid=1139508366/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9299631-5658454?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

I'm tempted to buy a copy for my son's school. It looks pretty interesting.

<small>[ 02-09-2006, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

I saw that the other day. Well, she's a Presbyterian, that sounds pretty suspicious to me.

Seriously, while I think that the subject matter of Faust is probably a little racy for first through third grade, it's clear that the parents of these kids need a reality check. And the school board needs a collective spine.

Maybe the teacher should have told the class that the opera is about a bad man who bargains with the Devil and goes to Hell for it, but the music is good. Phrased that way, the parental outrage might have been avoided.

One of the threads in our grand American ball of yarn is the anti-intellectual one. It's part of what we are, and we have a certain cultural suspicion of artsy-fartsy sissified overeducated tissyprissles. (Which is matched by the equally justified cultural mockery of redneck hayseed trailer trash with dirt under their fingernails and feedlot detritus on their boots.) {I can get along with either crowd and I both belong to and can laugh at both bunches. I'm another stereotype that they both recognize: Opinionated Fat Lady With Bifocals And Pins In Her Shirt And Knitting Needles In Her Hair And A Book In Her Purse, Who Lives With Cats.}

[BigJon@Work]

She didn't even show the whole thing! Just excerpts.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by BigJon@Work:
She didn't even show the whole thing! Just excerpts.

Yup. Like I said, parents need reality check, school board needs spine, teacher could've been just a tad more careful.

Too bad it wasn't Fidelio on the classroom shelf.

[Shapley]

Apparently the teacher is a former opera singer herself, which would probably put her on the suspicious list to begin with.

You know, one of those people! :Sideways glance at OT icon:

<small>[ 02-09-2006, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

Fat chance!

As hard as I try, I'm pretty sure I'm not on any of the lists.

But my optimisim keeps me going.....

FWIW, I've sung with a couple of guys in the opera chorus who make Shap look like a socialist.

(Darn! Whatdid I do with those [snark] [/snark] symbols.....)

<small>[ 02-09-2006, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[hal 9000]

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:
...Maybe the teacher should have told the class that the opera is about a bad man who bargains with the Devil and goes to Hell for it, but the music is good. Phrased that way, the parental outrage might have been avoided...

Hogwash! Maybe the ignorant parents should be taught that a tale about a man that sells his soul to the devil is in no way a promotion of Satanism. Are not the consequences of such an action relayed as well? Labelling someone a devilworshiper based on the fact that the devil is a character in a book, video, opera, etc., that they are sharing with others is nonsense!

However, there was something mentioned in that article that I thought reflected the teacher in a negative light... not letting the children sing Christmas songs. For the same reason conservative Christians should not be upset about the Faust thing, non-Christians should not be upset about Christmas music. Outrage over such things is pure nonsense. So what if a school allows students to sing Christmas songs. Likewise, so what if they introduce them to a classic opera that just happens to have the devil as a major character.

Good grief.

[barfle]

I am regularly dismayed at the reactions of people who think they have a clue, but would refuse one if offered because their minds are made up. I cite the ridiculous distortion of the description of trouser roles to lesbianism. Some people are simply too stupid to be allowed to breed, and that's coming from a libertarian.

I regularly breathe a sigh if relief that I'm not a parent faced with the stories kids bring home from school. I don't know if Faust is necessarily the best introduction to opera for a second-grader, but as I've noted several times in the past, you don't go to operas for the stories, you go for the way they are told. Seriously, besides Liu, who is worth caring about in Turandot? Maybe Pang.

Perhaps some of the better educated in the genre can use this example of blatant and deliberate stupidity to help improve the world. Is there an opera that would not be offensive to those who associate any fine art with liberalism, and therefore sinfulness?

[DavidS]

I felt very sorry for the Iranian people when I read that their crazy fanatical clerical "leaders" recently issued an edict banning the performance of of all types of "decadent western" music in Iran (a pianist who played Beethoven was forced to flee the country).
Such idiocy and ignorance is clearly present in other countries, and it is too bad that it causes generations of children suffering spiritual, mental and cultural handicaps to be raised.

[OperaTenor]

Hey Hal, welcome back!

From my experience, there aren't a whole lot of opera plots that I would consider to be suitable for a young audience, let alone entertaining as a stand-alone story. However, while they not be moral role models, they are hardly the stuff of censorship, and I agree with Hal in that if the story is to be told, it should be told as it is with no lily-gilding.

The ridiculousness of limiting our children's exposure to culture(Hal's examples are primo) is simply a product of stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

[DavidS]

Originally posted by barfle:
Is there an opera that would not be offensive to those who associate any fine art with liberalism, and therefore sinfulness?

Could someone tell me what is sinful about playing a few tricks on the count to keep him from taking advantage of his infamous traditional feudal privilege? Or showing the injustice committed by a man who murders his wife on the basis of shaky false evidence of her betrayal.
The bible is full of stories no less raunchy...

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

I was thinking that the "Faust is a Bad Man and Deals With The Devil and Goes To Hell For It" would play well in a narrowminded community.

We could make lots of scandalous operas out of Bible stories - in fact, I think somebody already did. There's Nabucco, and I think Salome made it into an opera somewhere, and it's not as if I knew of all that many operas!

Noah deserves an opera, as does Lot. Esther, Naomi, and Boaz (actually, that might play well in the small town). Sarah in the Pharoah's Harem. Joseph did all right with the Technicolor Dreamcoat, but his dad Jacob's story would be better treated in a classic opera: Jacob, the tricky father-in-law, Leah and Rachel and their two pregnant hand"maiden"s and the twelve sons (never mind any daughters!

I especially like the story about the rowdy children, the bald prophet, and the forty bears.

Geez, I wish I could write music. Hey, bignaf!! Help!

[DavidS]

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:
Jacob, the tricky father-in-law, Leah and Rachel and their two pregnant hand"maiden"s and the twelve sons (never mind any daughters!

Dinah, Jacob's daughter, got picked up and seduced by Shekhem. When her brothers heard about it they told Shekhem's father that they would have no objection to intermarriage, provided all the males in Shekhem underwent circumcision. On the third day after the operation (when the pain is supposed to be the most debilitating), Simon and Levi rampaged through the town and slaughtered all the males...How's that for a story? (Genesis 34)

[hal 9000]

Another thing that should be noted is that the teacher did not bring in the video of Faust from outside of the school to show the children. She found it among the school's own catalogue. If the school decides that the video was inappropriate, then they must share in the blame for making available to show.

As far as showing the video to 2nd graders, why not? This needs to be put in context. These days, many children are exposed to reading, science, and high forms of math before the ever enter grade school. Their capacity for learning at that age is great and some are actually putting that to good use. So why should opera be excluded from this?

[Shapley]

Selma,

Somehow, I equate an opera based on the Story of Noah to going to to see Gallagher live. Bring your raincoat!

V/R
Shapley

[shostakovich]

You know, after reading this thread, I'm ready to ban the Bible as acceptable for young readers. Who's with me?

By the way, the Faust legend is supposed to be based on a real event. Gotthold Lessing and Christopher Marlowe wrote two of the earliest fictionalizations. Goethe's is the most famous. Does anybody know how they were received in heavily Christian Europe?
Shos

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by shostakovich:
You know, after reading this thread, I'm ready to ban the Bible as acceptable for young readers. Who's with me?

Sunday School story telling has to be careful which stories get told, and how. The bible is a gloriously mixed bag: politics, scandal, treachery, heroism, the first (and excellent!) set of public health and sanitation regulations, awesomely effective safe foodhandling practices, love stories, poetry, history, revolution, and anarchy, and wars won, and wars lost. Some parts of it may well be rumor, folklore, and fairy tales.

I'm prepared to defend the public health, sanitation, and foodhandling as direct, divine Word of God - and they're probably the only reason the fugitives from Egypt survived to get to Palestine.

[dai bread]

Isn't it lucky for the teacher that she didn't show "Don Giovanni"? Or "Der Rosenkavalier" and its opening bedroom scene.

[RC]

[quote]Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:
[b] I saw that the other day. Well, she's a Presbyterian, that sounds pretty suspicious to me.