Anyone?

[Brahmsian]

I am a young an aspiring musician. I am an avid supporter of the music of Brahms, and the classic conservative side of music. I know Brahms is and always will be better then Wagner and his followers. Wagner could have been better then what he was. Brahms did so much in classical structure. He was a master. Wagner was not. Yes, Wagner influenced alot of musical things, but Brahms was a much better composer. Anyone who agrees our disagrees about this assement may e-mail me. Long live the 3 B's!

[BenG]

I'm also an avid fan of Brahms. I have almost everything he has written. He is one of the greatest composers in the 19th century without doubt. Did you know the Brahms once came into possession of one of Wagner's original opera scores? I forgot which one, but it made Herr Wagner furious. Wagner did not care as much for Brahms--but Brahms was a great admirer of Wagner...go figure. He was not Wagnerian in the least, however. Brahms lived in a modest apartment in Vienna with few personal belongings. Wagner wanted to live the lavish lifestyle of a king. Brahms was bored by Liszt and detested the lack of emotional control in music as exhibited in, say, Tchaikovsky. Yet he admired Wagner. Wagner was a great composer both inspirationally and technically. He was equal to Brahms despite their disparate musical styles. The thing about Brahms I love the most is his willingness to deal with emotion in a very refined and restrained manner. He never crosses the line into banality like some of his comtemporaries. He knew how to mine profound ideas and emotions without self indulgence. Yet inside he was boiling over with intense emotion. He loved women but could never marry one because he didn't want to befoul them with his lust. So he kept them as friends (and saved his lust for prostitutes) while making his music the ultimate expression of his sublime love. Wagner just liked women without complication. Gee, I'm rambling here...I like both composers, but Brahms gets my personal preference because he was able to distill and combine emotions in a subtle and interesting way like a fine wine.

[Brahmsian]

Wagner is okay, but if he would have refined himself, could have been as good. Tchaicvosky was one who also held this view. If Wagner would have written in structure instead of pursuing all of his theroies and pleasing his ego, he could have been great.

[shostakovich]

Thanks mainly to Berlioz first, then liszt and Wagner, the entire 19th C and beyond turned from absolute music to program music. There was no turning back. Brahms was one of the few, and it seems the very best, proponent of absolute music. Schumann, Mendelssohn, and Saint-Saens straddled both fields very well, but Brahms had his feet firmly planted in the heritage of the past, and he done it proud.<BR>Shos

[shostakovich]

Hey, Brahmsian, you never answered what you thought of Sibelius's 7th Sym.<BR>Shos

[Brahmsian]

There is a time and a place for program music, but the ultimate musical experience is the excersize of the mind in structure which culminated in Brahms

[serge urtizberea]

I would argue that the ultimate exercise of the mind in structure lay with Beethoven, who encapsulated and ensconced the widest range of human personality in sometimes the most fragmentary of theme or construction. Brahms was very conservative in style; the polar opposite of the musically grandoise Liszt and Berlioz. Perhaps grandoisity was more de rigueur at the time. Liszt was a pop-sensation equivalent, while Brahms is seen as very academic in nature. I won't even start discussing Wagner and Brahms; the more I learn of Wagner the man, the more I detest him. <P>The path of 19th century music after Beethoven cetainly bifurcated (now that's a word) or 'multi-furcated' into at times seemingly incongruous styles. I don't think anyone could properly compare Satie to Dvorak or Elgar to Liszt. While Brahms was a very good composer, his work is too sombre, and even melodramatic, for me. I'm not well-versed in all his work, but other than his Dances, did Brahms write happy music?

[BenG]

The 'Academic Festival Overture' was perhaps the happiest music penned by Brahms. He wrote it in thanks for an honorary doctorate he had received. Of course, the acadamicians were less than thrilled when they heard it. But the students loved it. The overture contained variations of various college drinking songs. <BR>

[Brahmsian]

Some of Brahms' music is heavy. However, to dismiss him just because his music doesn't seem happy is somewhat naive. The first movment to his third symphony, although serious, is very light in character is certain sections. The third movment to his fourth, and almost all of his second symphony is happy music. Brahms is known for his sentimentality, but was very adept in other areas as well.