Stanely Kubrick's 2001

[Bob the Composer]

<BR>It is a well known controversy regarding Kubricks sudden discarding of Alex North's origional score to 2001. And I have heard many arguments against that choice in favor of Alex North. I have heard the score myself, though, and I don't think it would work.<P>Consider the opening. Also Sprach Zarustha is very simple and yet works well, whereas North's music for this scene is very complex. This leads me to think that perhaps Kubrick's choice was an attempt to simplify the music into something that was familiar to the audience, so as to make the movie easier to digest for the multitudes, whereas North's score would have added another layer of complexity to an already bizzare movie and made it uninteligeable. Plus, I think that the opening apes sequence works better without any music at all. This makes it seem more real and meaningful, whereas North's score there would have cluttered things up unnecessarily. What are your thoughts on the matter.<P>Bob

[Peter]

Bob, I`ve not heard North`s score so am commenting blind here, but I`d suggest that Kubrick got it right with Also Sprach Zarathustra - spot on for mood. I`ve never been quite so sure about On the Beautiful Blue Danube, though!!

[Michael]

He was also spot on with the music he selected for the deep space voyage. I think it was Khatchaturian but I'm not sure. (Not sure about the spelling either!)<P>M.

[~Leslie]

Hmmm, I haven't heard the North version either. The intervallic opening of Also Spracht , has that timeless ethereal quality<BR>that connects with the human emotion through usage of the perfect fifths and octaves. <P>Dooooooooo-------Soooooooo--------(up 8ve)--------Doooooooo!!!!!!!!Mi------Mayyyyyyy!!!!<P>At least that is how I see it. ~

[Jeff Dutton]

In response to Michael's comment about the Blue Danube, I have to say that in my (sometimes humble)opinion, the Blue Danube fits perfectly in 2001. I am a big fan of space travel as well as classical music. The best scene in which the Blue Danube is playing is the one in which the shuttle rocket is matching up with the rotating space stating. Seeing the two rotating in sync with each other as the rocket approaches the space station is like watching a ballet.<BR>(Or... at least that's how it appears to me)<BR>I happened to see this scene on TV last weekend. Ahhh, it was beeyootiful!<P>Jeff

[Peter]

Leslie, what a lovely singing voice you have............

[Michael]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Dutton:<BR><B>In response to Michael's comment about the Blue Danube, I have to say that in my (sometimes humble)opinion, the Blue Danube fits perfectly in 2001. I am a big fan of space travel as well as classical music. The best scene in which the Blue Danube is playing is the one in which the shuttle rocket is matching up with the rotating space stating. Seeing the two rotating in sync with each other as the rocket approaches the space station is like watching a ballet.<BR>(Or... at least that's how it appears to me)<BR>I happened to see this scene on TV last weekend. Ahhh, it was beeyootiful!<P>Jeff </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, it was Peter who made the comment about the Blue Danube. I think it was an absolutely brilliant choice for the early space scenes - totally out of left field - and it works like a dream.<BR>And the use of Ligeti's work towards the end was equally inspired.<P>Michael<P>

[~Leslie]

Yes, I'm quite the warbler, singing in the printed word. The Do-re-mi system is how I learned ear straining, I mean,....... ear training. <P>So now I'm supposed to say whether I am PRO-Blue Danube or CON- Blue Danube? <P>Lets see...........it's a stately waltz, it conjures the magnificence of a bygone era of European aristocracy ,..........in sweeping ballroom gowns with an elegant, refined culture, or is it the passage of time and travel on a beautiful river? Is that it? <P>Maybe it's a symbolic suggestion of intergallactic travel in the gigantic starship in a timely juxtaposition of mankind sailing over waters of the past.<P>Speaking of sailing, it was also used in Titanic<BR>when the ill fated couple on the ill fated liner met in the first class section on Grand Staircase. Noone will dispute whether it belonged there, I hope. <p>[This message has been edited by ~Leslie (edited 03-07-2001).]

[Peter]

Sorry, folks, but I just don`t see how a lavish Strauss waltz is appropriate for images of huge lumps of space metal drifting in zero gravity. I`d even go as far as to call the use of this music silly. So there!!<P>PS. I`ve not seen Titanic.

[Bob the Composer]

From what I've heard, Kubrick chose Blue Danube because, A.) he thought it was graceful enough, and B.) he wanted to avoid using anything that was even remotely like "space music". Another person has said that Blue danube is the same kind of "sentimental pap" that you'd hear in any airport around the world. Thus, by using this waltz, Kubrick is probably trying to show that space travel is now common, while projecting an atsmosphere of grace, like a ballet. At anyrate, I simply don't like North's scoring for that sequence. I like the rest of the score as music, but I simply don't like this idea. Incidentally, Kubrick may have orgionally planned to use the scherzo from "A Midsummer Night's Dream" by Felix Mendelsohnn.<P>Bob

[~Leslie]

Gasp!! Choke!! Peter! You haven't seen Titanic??<P>OK, ok, (remain calm)......,actually I did not wish to cause a ruckus in here by dissecting the Danube thing. <P>Peter, what should Kubrick have used for<BR>the spaceship scenes? Anyone else? <P>Any trekkies in here, this is your big chance!

[Peter]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Leslie:<BR><B>Gasp!! Choke!! Peter! You haven't seen Titanic??<BR>OK, ok, (remain calm)......,actually I did not wish to cause a ruckus in here by dissecting the Danube thing. <BR>Peter, what should Kubrick have used for<BR>the spaceship scenes? Anyone else? <BR>Any trekkies in here, this is your big chance!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A glass of water for Leslie! QUICKLY!! Without seeing Titanic, I just know that it will be very poor fare (Kate Winslet.....sigh......not withstanding), compared to the brilliant original telling of the story in film: A Night to Remember.<P>I am a huge Star Trek fan, but will have to watch 2001 again before thinking of something more appropriate than On the Beautiful Blue Danube. I loved Bob`s comment about Kubrick possibly using the waltz as futuristic airport lounge muzak

[~Leslie]

Peter,The film A Night to Remember (1958) was in black & white, based on Walter Lord's book,appeared without any shots of the underwater wreckage, showing the ship sinking in one piece.(another myth dispeled) <P>The music by William Alwyn was, well, "unmemorable".<P>I think Cameron's film far surpassed the standards of technology in the 50's, with the use of digital cinematography, and you should break down and see it .<P>

[Peter]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Leslie:<BR><B> Peter,The film A Night to Remember (1958) was in black & white, based on Walter Lord's book,appeared without any shots of the underwater wreckage, showing the ship sinking in one piece.(another myth dispeled) <BR>The music by William Alwyn was, well, "unmemorable".<BR>I think Cameron's film far surpassed the standards of technology in the 50's, with the use of digital cinematography, and you should break down and see it .<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ANOTHER GLASS OF WATER FOR LESLIE!!!<P>It`s not that I`ve avoided Titanic, I simply haven`t gotten around to it. Of course I have seen clips, & have heard the opinions of others, but it seems to me that the new movie is really TWO movies - one; the slushy, drivelly, vacuous, poorly acted, poorly paced, female-appealling love story "chick flick" (Clare was in tears!); the other; the REAL stuff - the iceberg, the mayhem, the sinking, etc. The fact that Titanic cost billions to make, won thousands of Oscars & is in COLOUR (this is important??), means squat to me. Besides, DeCapprio looks like a girl!! <P>A Night to Remember was made on a fraction of Titanic`s budget (even then), its acting is first-rate, the tension builds all the way through, & it has an atmosphere you could cut with a knife. Yes, allowing for its budget, there are one or two historical inaccuracies, but it is, for its day, still a marvellous MOVIE; Kenneth More`s finest.<P>Maybe we need a third opinion. Michael? Anyone?

[JasonK]

I am sure that true stories of actual people on the Titanic would have been more than intriguing to carry a film......just seems like they took a cheap way out.....the disaster and loss of life and the circumstances around it were the backdrop....a kinda let down for a student of history....for me personally.<p>[This message has been edited by JasonK (edited 03-08-2001).]

[John]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter:<BR><B> ... Maybe we need a third opinion. Michael? Anyone? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Peter:<P>I haven't seen Titanic, but I have seen the old classic (excellent movie!). However, what is the fun of going to the movie when you already know the end, especially if it is depressing? It's like going to see the Hindenberg movie -- I already know it burns up and people die. Where is the suspense and hope in that?<P>John<BR>

[~Leslie]

I DON'T CARE ABOUT LEONARDO DECAPITATED!! I am not some silly teenager, FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!OK boys, out of respect to Bob, whose topic has strayed, I shall desist! I don't NEED a glass of water now, I need a bailing bucket!!

[audiogirl]

If you missed Titanic on the big screen, you missed the boat (HA), just for the sheer spectacle of the film. Aesthetically speaking, a it's a pretty work.......The ship, the costumes, the decor (I'm assuming these are true to the time period.) I, for one, was struck by the sheer waste of life. Yeah, I cried when Jack died, but the thing that really stayed with me was the senselessness of all those people dying.<P>Segue........<P>I can go with the Blue Danube-space connection. Maybe it was chosen to enhance the tranquility of space.

[Peter]

THE SHIP SANK?????!!!!! I NEVER KNEW!!!!!<BR>Man, you guys have COMPLETELY ruined this movie for me. Until now, I always thought it was just the big screen version of The Love Boat. What`s the point in going to see it, now that I know the ending??

[shostakovich]

Bob's original topic, North vs Kubrik choices has been completely hijacked. It seems to be on the Titanic headed God knows where. Like most people, I have not heard North's score. The choices of the 2 Strauss works always struck me as dipoles. Also Sprach Zarathustra is a philosophical work and so is 2001. The Blue Danube is a real stretch. It's neither philosophical nor spacey. The connection may be with the blue that is so much of earth from space. Or it might be because one artistic(?) idea is juxtaposition of opposites to emphasize one or the other. I found the schmaltzy waltz very distracting. Balletic? Lots of better dances to pick. I would have preferred silence, the music of space where there is no air to carry sound. This is obviously just one more case of "different strokes for different folks".<P>The music for the interior with the bodies in suspended animation was the lullaby from Khachaturian's Gayne. I thought that was an inspired choice. Ligeti's Atmosphere's for the monolith was also a super choice. The music is virtually unknown (as is all of Ligeti's music --- with justification, for my money). I'd really like to know how someone came up with that. It's so far removed from the contemporary idea of film music, I wonder if it was accidental. Great match, anyway.<P>Moving over, briefly, to Titanic, go see it, Peter. Hold onto the arms of your chair tightly during the schlock, and enjoy the recreation of the period and the ship itself. You know the ending now, but it's not the story that you should see it for. The effects and cinematography are the show.<BR>"Chick flick" might be an accurate principal description of Titanic, but there's something for everybody who loves art.<BR>Shos<P>