Beethoven's Fifth

[jackm]

There was mention of the fifth in one of the other threads and I'm compelled to say that I find it one of his most humorous pieces.<P>In the first movement he has two false endings but he's just paving the way for the fourth movement. He tricks you into thinking the peice is ending only to have one of the instruments giggle as they keep the music going. After doing this a few more times he finally gets to the finale. But even then he has one more trick up his sleeve. The final chords leap out at you and keep coming like a veritable flood and if you're not careful you're not sure when the last chord has sounded until a moment or two of silence.<P>Even though this was about the time he started to relize he was going deaf I have to believe Ludwig was smiling as he wrote that.<P>Jack

[thrillhouse]

His 5th was monumental. If I remember correctly, it was one of his first pieces where he was breaking away from the standard, boring Sonata Form of the early classical composers. The 4 movements of Beethoven's 5th go: Sonata Form, Theme and Variation, Scherzo and Trio, and Sonata Form again. All 4 of these movements differ from what the standard of those forms were. For example, in the first movement (sonata form), the standard of Exposition, Development, and Recapitulation remain the same, but if I can recall correctly(haven't listened to beethoven in a long time), his recapitulation is in a different key than the exposition where the standard was for it to be the same. There are many other differences also in that movement, but I will move on. An extemely interesting fact about his 5th is that he connects the movements. Before his 5th, that was unheard of and never done. He does this in two ways. The first is that his 3rd movement goes straight into the 4th. There is no end to the third... it just continues to the 4th. Secondly, in the 4th movement, he plays a segment of the third movement in the middle of it (I forget whether it was the the scherzo or the trio part, but listen for it, it's there and it's awesome.) And he finishes the 4th symphony with something like 25 horn bursts that are totally out of context and form. When I listen to the 4th movement of his 5th symphony, all I can think is TRIUMPH. sooo unbelievable. I think his 5th was probably his most influential piece b/c that single piece could be seen as the transition b/w the classical period and the romantic period. Just Awesome.

[watcher]

I agree, I think Beethoven's fifth is, come to think of it, is downright humorous, when you think it's over with, it starts all over again. I do agree with thrillhouse, that it is triumph, because at the time, I do believe he was going deaf. It will now and forever remain one of my favorite pieces.

[shostakovich]

If "Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee", then maybe the 5th is the Sara Lee of symphonies. I'd like to contribute something I heard, but can't swear to. It's the first orchestral work to employ the trombone. This may be apocryphal, so if anyone out there knows, please comment.

[jackm]

I think I heard that about the trombones too but Im not sure. I am fairly certain it was the first time the string basses had their own part and not just doubling the cellos an octave lower. And they got to play all alone.<P>Jack

[Nicole Marie]

The Double Basses did begin to break away. But we really do so in Beethoven's 8th! Wow! There are some really exciting parts in that symphony!

[jackm]

Nicole,<P>You say "we" in reference to the double basses in the 8th. Are you a closet bass player?<P>Jack

[shostakovich]

There's a PDQ Bach recording containing an analysis of the first movement announced as in a ball game. It's worth looking for.

[jackm]

The PDQ Bach piece you refer to is called "New Horizons in Music Appreciation"<BR>and it's on the album "PDQ Bach on the Air with Professor Peter Schickele"<P>It's wonderful.<P>

[Nicole Marie]

Hi JackM-<P>I am a Double Bass Player! I have been playing for about 13 years now. Are you also a double bass player?<P>Nicole Marie

[jackm]

Not a bass player. I'm limited to classical organ, french horn, alto recorder, clavichord, hammered dulcimer, 5 string banjo and a little harmonica. Alas, except for an occasional stint as my church organist and a few jam sessions with friends, music has become a hobby.

[Sparky]

You call that 'limited'? You're a bleedin' orchestra!

[Nicole Marie]

JackM-<P>Sparky is right you alone could go on tour! Sparky do you play? Let's start a Beethoven Radio ensemble!

[treebeau]

To JackM:<P>Man! If only you played the bagpipes too !<BR>We've been wanting to find someone to play<BR>parties with banjo, hammered dulcimer,<BR>and bagpipes !<P>Just kidding. My compliments on your<BR>abilities, however. Playing just one<BR>instrument is tough enough.<BR>

[Sparky]

You DEFINITELY don't want me. There has always been a piano in our home; however it hasn't been tuned in over 20 years. That's no accident; now, when I hit a wrong note, I can say it was the right key, but that the piano is out of tune. I tried trumpet for one year in high school, but,in consideration of the world around me, I gave up on that. Violin didn't fare much better, although it was quieter than the trumpet. Our engineering school had a so-called band, which accepted anyone with a pulse; so I wore a Mozartian wig and played recorder....for two years. Do you think anyone heard that recorder over the trumpets, trombones, cymbals, and drums? Not likely - I'm still alive. So, like I said, you don't want me in any band you start.<P>By the way, Nicole, is there any such thing as a single bass? Seriously, was there once an instrument with a higher register than the double bass, or is it simply now called a cello?

[Nicole Marie]

Well, the next step higher from the bass is the cello. The double bass can hit almost every range of the instruments in the orchestra. That is why I enjoy the instrument so much. You can play with the tuba then jump to soloing with the violins! Pretty cool!

[jackm]

I would love to add bagpipes to my instrument collection but my wife considers that an 'outside toy'.<P>For those of you who don't play an instrument it's never too late to learn. Don't worry about becoming a virtuoso. just have fun. <P>A long time ago (when I was young, enthusiastic and foolish) I took a job selling organs. The kind with little lights under the keys to show you where the chords are and numbers for the upper registers so they didn't have to read music. At the time I looked down my nose at those people since I was a "real" musician. Now I realize they probably had as much enjoyment out of playing the old standards with block chords as I did wrestling with JS Bach on the slightly larger version of the organ.<P>Besides, it's a great way to meet girls.<P>Jack

[serge urtizberea]

Selling organs... sounds like the life for me. Alas, I am only a mere intermediate pianist (if that), so that particular career may not be for me. I don't even know what a "stop" is on an organ!<BR>To reply to the trombone thing a little while back: yes, it was indeed the first time that instrument found a home in a symphony. That info about the bass solo in the 5th was new to me, though. It's always interesting to learn what Beethoven pioneered in music, because the list just goes on and on.

[jrs]

Boy, the little band you all got going sounds fun...I play the guitar, which means I can at least tune it. But it has, having played it for twenty years, given me the ability to appreciate good music and those that can play well (Rondo for Michael by Skanson for instance). But as far as being in your little band--I'm afraid I'd add but an eerie type of depression. I'll just be a distant fan. Later.

[jrs]

PS--Might I find employment in those "darker movements"?<P>