1960s Jazz Question

[shostakovich]

There's a painting in our local museum called Garden of Music, done in 1960. It features (in somewhat surreal fashion) Ornette Coleman (sax), Don Cherry (trumpet), John Coltrane or Archie Shepp (also sax), Sonny Rollins (sax), Charlie Haden (bass), Teddie Gross (no instrument), and an unidentified drummer. Can anyone familiar with the era: 1)determine whether Shepp or Coltrane is the more likely in 1960, 2)confirm that Haden was/is white, 3)tell me what instrument Teddie Gross played, and 4)who the drummer likely was? I and other docents fascinated by the painting thank you in advance.<BR>Shos

[~Leslie]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shostakovich:<BR><B>There's a painting in our local museum called Garden of Music, done in 1960. It features (in somewhat surreal fashion) Ornette Coleman (sax), Don Cherry (trumpet), John Coltrane or Archie Shepp (also sax), Sonny Rollins (sax), Charlie Haden (bass), Teddie Gross (no instrument), and an unidentified drummer. Can anyone familiar with the era: 1)determine whether Shepp or Coltrane is the more likely in 1960, 2)confirm that Haden was/is white, 3)tell me what instrument Teddie Gross played, and 4)who the drummer likely was? I and other docents fascinated by the painting thank you in advance.<BR>Shos</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Hi Shos,<P>Before consulting my jazz guru friends about this query, I will say Charlie Haden is white, a native Missourian and very close friends with guitarist Pat Metheny, so that Charlie was Pat's best man at his wedding.<P>They cut a record together called "Beyond the Missouri Sky", a very Americana romantic dinner for two type recording, as rated by Martha Stewart Living.:^ )<P>Ornette Coleman is known for being adventurous and bombastic in jazz, he also cut a recording with Metheny called Song X, which is a crazy foray in "outside" jazz. I would never recommend it to anyone in this forum.<P>Conversely, Sonny Rollins is extremely melodic and thoughtful in his improvisation and much more listener friendly than Ornette. <P>Coltrane in 1960? Oh yes, a very prominent figure in jazz, even now. ~

[shostakovich]

Thanks, Leslie, and thanks in advance to your jazz guru friends. The painting is quite popular at the museum.<BR>Shos

[~Leslie]

Well Shos, so far your query has led me on a merry jaunt across the web, and I believe I'm getting a little closer to the story.<P>My tour explained how these men were extremely discriminated against before 1960. They couldn't get a gig in a symphony or playing on cruise ships simply because they were black, even though they had phenomenal chops.<P>I couldn't find Teddie Gross at all, just geneology sites. <P>John Coltrane launched his solo career in 1960 and soon afterwards became a spiritual man in his music. <P>Hagen, played with Ornette and Don Cherry <BR>during that time of the museum painting.<P>That period was the beginning of free jazz, with Ornette leading the way, and I believe the surreal painting maybe making a statement about it. <P>Try typing Ornette Coleman in WindowsMedia.com, for more clues. ~<P>

[Sir Stewart]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shostakovich:<BR><B>There's a painting in our local museum called Garden of Music, done in 1960. It features (in somewhat surreal fashion) Ornette Coleman (sax), Don Cherry (trumpet), John Coltrane or Archie Shepp (also sax), Sonny Rollins (sax), Charlie Haden (bass), Teddie Gross (no instrument), and an unidentified drummer. Can anyone familiar with the era: 1)determine whether Shepp or Coltrane is the more likely in 1960, 2)confirm that Haden was/is white, 3)tell me what instrument Teddie Gross played, and 4)who the drummer likely was? I and other docents fascinated by the painting thank you in advance.<BR>Shos</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>According to Coleman's bio:<BR>Around 1959, Billy Higgins was drummer with<BR>Coleman's band. In 1960 two albums were released on Atlantic with Ed Blackwell on drums. In late 1961 the group became a trio and then in late 1962 there was a drummer named Charles Moffett. Mid 60's he used drummer Ed Blackwell, Billy Higgins and son Denardo.<BR>For more, goto: <A HREF="http://home.att.net/~dawild/oc_biography.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://home.att.net/~dawild/oc_biography.htm</A> <P>Sir Stew<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Sir Stewart (edited 04-12-2001).]

[~Leslie]

Hi Stewart, Those two drummers are as good a guess as any, now for fun Shos, could you please tell us where on the internet we might view this painting? <P>As for Teddie Gross, I could not find any information whatsoever.......~

[shostakovich]

Thanks much, Leslie and Stew. I tried keyword Wadsworth Atheneum to get the museum's site. There were several works available for view, but I could not locate Bob Thompson's Garden of Music. It may be a part of the "Amistad" collection, but was not on view. The site might be interesting for landscape lovers. Daniel Wadsworth, the founder, was a patron of Thomas Cole and Frederick Church. Consequently, the museum has one of the best collections of Hudson River School paintings to be found anywhere.<BR>Shos

[~Leslie]

Shos, Though I haven't seen this art, the more I read about this guy , the more I understand why you asked.~<P> <A HREF="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1248/12_86/53408954/p4/article.jhtml?term=" TARGET=_blank>http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1248/12_86/53408954/p4/article.jhtml?term=</A>