The Greatest Composer Ever

[bignaf]

Gershwin is the greatest composer ever. at least he made the most money.
the problem with that list is that Gershwin and strauss Jr. were pop composers at their time. so the richest classical composer ever is Verdi. but opera was somewhat pop at the time too, so the richest classical composer ever is Handel.

[barfle]

I suppose it goes to your definition of "classical." While I know of a few composers of "serious" (again, how can entertainment be serious) orchestral works, whether or not they should be considered classical is a real quandry.

Maybe Paul McCartney, since he composed the Liverpool Oratorio should be on the list, in which case, I think the discussion is over.

[barfle]

Blinking double posts! Where's the delete button when you need it?

[BenODen]

It's totally a tough call, and I probably don't have any kind of subjective position on it. I think I have to give it to Beethoven though, only by a head's hair. The breadth of his Orchestral and chamber works are pretty amazing. Mozart is the close second with the large body of choral works to balance the Symphonic works.

-BenODen

(With Barfle's double post, I just had to see if the notification messge happened here, even though I hadn't responded here before. Prior to this evidence, it looked like only my address was showing up on the error messages...)

[Catmando]

I think *ig's posts is looking for the "richest" classical composer, in terms of comparable dollar values, not necessarily "greatest" in terms of best body of work.

Am I right or completely off track?

[BenODen]

Hmmmm, well, then we'd probably have to give the edge to Mozart, since he had more '*IG' works, big orchestras and choirs, which would bring in more money? On the other hand, Mozart's works were sometimes Sacred in nature, which might mean they were more artistic/worship that weren't commissioned by someone with money? Just a high level theory here...

[bignaf]

I used the word "greatest" in a slightly sarcastic, societal-criticism way. I'm most definitely refering to the richest composer ever. the person who ended up making and having the most money. since Mozart died penniless, I don't think he nearly qualifies.

[bignaf]

test

[Catmando]

Pretty sure Vivaldi died penniless also.

[Shapley]

I guess there are a lot of loose ends that have to be tied up here. Do they have to have had a lot of money when they died? I seem to recall that Mozart made a lot of money in his lifetime, he just wasted it (sort of like Willy Nelson). Also, do they have to have been successful as a composer? I seem to recall some multi-millionaire (I can't recall his name just now, I'd have to do some Googling to find it) that composed some pretty awful pieces of 'classical' music, sort of as a hobby. He was quite successful in whatever else it was he did, but his music was entirely forgettable.

Gershwin was also successful as an investor of his earnings. Had Mozart exhibited as much market savvy, he might be in the running.

V/R
Shapley

[Catmando]

Gershwin was also successful as an investor of his earnings. Had Mozart exhibited as much market savvy, he might be in the running.

V/R
Shapley

Hmmm, I wonder what would have been considered to be "market savvy" in the 18th century?

[Shapley]

Hard to say, but the monied obviously made investments that payed dividends. Real estate, perhaps? Invest as a partner or patron in a business venture? Buy a theatre? Mozart's father was financially successful, wasn't he?

V/R
Shapley

[barfle]

(With Barfle's double post, I just had to see if the notification messge happened here, even though I hadn't responded here before. Prior to this evidence, it looked like only my address was showing up on the error messages...)

The double post was the result of a very, very, very, very, very, very, very slow response to the "submit" button. I was able to open the thread in another window while I was waiting, and when I saw the post show up, I decided it was OK. No idea when the second one showed up.

Must be a computer.

[bignaf]

they seem to have evaluated the composers estates at their death, and translated them to modern pound equivalents.

[Shapley]

That seems backwards to me. I would consider any money left over after I die to be money wasted. I think wealth should be measured in how well you live, not in how well you die.

[BenODen]

Very interesting Shapley, hard to measure though. And to some extent, when you spend money, some of it goes to things that have long term value, though, so having nothing of value, says that you either gave it all away, or suddenly stopped making money and had to live off what you had earned earlier. Also, having lots of money left over at the end indicates that you had lots of money working for you in life. But it is a cheat to say that if someone is not rich, they're not successful.

We moderners avoid that question by definition however. You're rich and famous or you're not, if you are you're therefore successful. Pretty shallow, certainly. I could conceivably live in a cardboard shack in another part of the world, to steal a phrase, but have money coming in by the truck loads and just send it out to help other people. That's not the usual modus oporandi though, these days rich people usually do favors for other rich people so they can boost eachother up towards being even richer. Having power/influence is a corrolary to being rich, so it benefits you to be rich in posessions, not just making lots of money, and that that makes the measure of Rich == Successful association more accurate than it would be otherwise... Still, yeah, kinda crazy.

[bignaf]

That seems backwards to me. I would consider any money left over after I die to be money wasted. I think wealth should be measured in how well you live, not in how well you die.

The more money a person leaves over, the more likely it is the he'she could afford to leave over that money. therefore, the calculation of estate makes sense. also the calculation of estate includes real-estate and other amenities. therefore a high-value estate probably means they lived well. it is not a calculation of solely money left over.

[bignaf]

sorry, I just repeated what BenoDen said. but more decisively.

[Shapley]

Well, I was being a little bit facetious. Obviously, I don't want to leave my wife or my children paupers. At the same time, I don't want to leave support my wife's future husband's life of leisure.

I've known too many people who've worked hard all their lives to have a nest egg to spend in their retirement years, only to have death, poor health, or crooked investment managers rob them of the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of their labours. I want to see the world while I've still the health and sensibilities to enjoy it. Now if I can just convince the wife to trade the house in on a sailboat....

While we were in Mexico, we visited a Mayan village. Many people would look at what they have and feel the need to elevate them out of their poverty. However, as the tour guide pointed out, they are not poor, they just have simple needs. They have more money coming in than they need, from the sale of handcrafts, percentages on the tourist business, and government handouts. Thus we visited them in their little thatched huts, making tortillas in the traditional Mayan method, in the shade of the satelite dish. Inside the homes they had televisions, washing machines, refrigerators, and DVD players. The lived somewhat traditional lives, but they now had money to buy luxuries, because the things that they needed was provided, as it has been for a thousand years, by the Earth.

V/R
Shapley

[Shapley]

You could say I look at the way I look at tax refunds. Some people like to get a big tax return, because that means they've been successful and don't have to shell out money from their own pocket on tax day. They view a tax refund as a windfall.

I like to come as close to zero, preferable a little on the negative side, on tax day, because it means I haven't given the government an interest-free loan during the previous year. I just like to have enough on hand to pay the slight negative amount when the bill comes due.

V/R

Shapley