30Q #38 - Shapely

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Postby Shapley » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:00 am

I assume you count Sir Malcolm Arnold as a minor leaguer, so that would leave Bruckner.
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Postby Catmando » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:15 am

I have a "complete" set of Bruckner symphonies. Symphonies 1-9 conducted by Eugen Jochum.

They do not include the '0' and '00' Symphonies.

This is very misleading. Does this mean Bruckner has 11 Symphonies? If so, why does that EMI box set call it "complete" with only 1-9?

:roll:
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Postby Shapley » Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:28 am

Louis Spohr was also a composer of nine symphonies, leaving a tenth unfinished.

According to the non-definitive Wikipedia, Bruckner did not count his symphony 0 and 00 (given those numbers after his death), considering both invalid.

If we are to exclude Dvorak because he did not count four of his symphonies, then we have to apply the same rule to Bruckner.

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Postby bignaf » Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:57 am

shostakovich wrote:How about this theory? Mahler's "Symphony #8" is not really a symphony. DLVDE is also not a symphony. So when he wrote the so-called 9th, it was really the 8th. That's how he tried to fake out fate. But fate outfoxed him. He called the 9th "10th", and he never finished. So, there is only one major composer (that I can think of) after Beethoven who managed to finish a 9th. WHO WAS IT?

Note, Dvorak's New World was the 5th at the time of his death. The first 4 were only published after he died. Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony, so-called #1, is not really a symphony for the same reason Mahler's "8th" isn't. So VW did not finish a 9th. Fate got a bit testy over the ploy, and got VW just before the premiere recording of the "9th", actually his 8th, making absolutely certain there would be no 9th.

So who, after Beethoven, finished a "9th"? Fate doesn't bother with minor leaguers, so we shouldn't either.
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Postby Catmando » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:01 am

bignaf wrote:
shostakovich wrote:How about this theory? Mahler's "Symphony #8" is not really a symphony. DLVDE is also not a symphony. So when he wrote the so-called 9th, it was really the 8th. That's how he tried to fake out fate. But fate outfoxed him. He called the 9th "10th", and he never finished. So, there is only one major composer (that I can think of) after Beethoven who managed to finish a 9th. WHO WAS IT?

Note, Dvorak's New World was the 5th at the time of his death. The first 4 were only published after he died. Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony, so-called #1, is not really a symphony for the same reason Mahler's "8th" isn't. So VW did not finish a 9th. Fate got a bit testy over the ploy, and got VW just before the premiere recording of the "9th", actually his 8th, making absolutely certain there would be no 9th.

So who, after Beethoven, finished a "9th"? Fate doesn't bother with minor leaguers, so we shouldn't either.
Shos


That was my answer on the previous page. :P
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Postby navneeth » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:10 am

I hereby declare that Mahler's Das Lied be classified as a dwarf-symphony! :D
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Postby bignaf » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:10 am

but I answered it in a more clever way. :)

Bruckner's 9th is incomplete.
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Postby shostakovich » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:37 pm

Catmando wrote:
shostakovich wrote:How about this theory? Mahler's "Symphony #8" is not really a symphony. DLVDE is also not a symphony. So when he wrote the so-called 9th, it was really the 8th. That's how he tried to fake out fate. But fate outfoxed him. He called the 9th "10th", and he never finished. So, there is only one major composer (that I can think of) after Beethoven who managed to finish a 9th. WHO WAS IT?

Note, Dvorak's New World was the 5th at the time of his death. The first 4 were only published after he died. Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony, so-called #1, is not really a symphony for the same reason Mahler's "8th" isn't. So VW did not finish a 9th. Fate got a bit testy over the ploy, and got VW just before the premiere recording of the "9th", actually his 8th, making absolutely certain there would be no 9th.

So who, after Beethoven, finished a "9th"? Fate doesn't bother with minor leaguers, so we shouldn't either.
Shos


Why, it was you Shostakovich, of course! :)


Aw, shucks :wink:
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Postby shostakovich » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:00 pm

Yup, Cat and Big knew who I had in mind.

Thanks, Shap for applying the "Dvorak rule" to Bruckner. And Arnold is most definitely a minor leaguer in my estimation. Spohr, too. To save my duff, I'll probably have to demote any other symphonist to the minors --- like Miaskovsy, who wrote almost 30. :roll:

Shos
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Postby Peter » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:30 am

shostakovich wrote:Yup, Cat and Big knew who I had in mind.

Thanks, Shap for applying the "Dvorak rule" to Bruckner. And Arnold is most definitely a minor leaguer in my estimation.

Shos


Well, Shos, it looks like your comment so hurt Sir Malcolm that he lost the will to live. :wink:
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Postby Shapley » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:22 pm

Sure, enough! I hadn't heard it till now, so I Googled it:

Sir Malcolm Arnold, R.I.P.

V/R
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Postby shostakovich » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:00 pm

Peter wrote:
shostakovich wrote:Yup, Cat and Big knew who I had in mind.

Thanks, Shap for applying the "Dvorak rule" to Bruckner. And Arnold is most definitely a minor leaguer in my estimation.

Shos


Well, Shos, it looks like your comment so hurt Sir Malcolm that he lost the will to live. :wink:


Oh, the guilt! I feel terrible. I really love his English Dances, and I'll never have a chance to tell him now. :( :( :( :cry: :cry:

Mortified
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Postby Peter » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:07 pm

Shos, you're both a wise man and a naughty boy! But then, aren't we all? :flex:
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Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:53 pm

Sad to hear about Arnold....
He wrote a fabulous Brass Quintet!
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