Name that tune

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Name that tune

Postby treebeau » Thu Nov 02, 2000 2:02 pm

Hello everyone.<P>Sir Stewart and Nicole Marie just played a piece by Smetana.<P>Legend has it that Smetana and Beethoven were contemporaries and friends. Can anyone name the piece of music in which Beethoven supposedly describes (3 times) how to pronounce "Smetana?"<p>[This message has been edited by treebeau (edited 11-02-2000).]
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Fri Nov 03, 2000 1:38 pm

Beethoven's best known vocal work is the last movement of his ninth symphony, so that would be my guess. Unless, of course, you're referring to an instrumental phrase that is supposed to comvey something. Just a guess.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Nov 03, 2000 1:51 pm

Hi Sparky-<P>You are not to far off with both those answers! This is interesting to see who knows the answer. I'm going to sit back and enjoy this! I'll tell you the answer if no one knows....Nicole
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Fri Nov 03, 2000 2:00 pm

Something else is troubling me here. Beethoven died in 1827, Smetana was born in 1824. So, unless Beethoven was clairvoyant, and Smetana was one hell of a prodigy, why would would Beethoven have even noticed Smetana?
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Nov 03, 2000 2:07 pm

Hi Sparky-<P>Well composers knew of each other! Ideas would be passed around and remember music was the main form of entertainment, so people would talk and share ideas. If you study music history you see that one idea leads to another idea leads to...you got it.<BR>And this is how music evolved. Isn't sharing wonderful!<P>Nicole
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Fri Nov 03, 2000 2:20 pm

Not to be argumentative, but Smetana would have been THREE when Beethoven died. I doubt that he had even started his composing career by that age. Ergo, my original question: why would Beethoven have noticed this particular 3-year-old from amongst all the others? Or is this all a rhetorical puzzle?
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Nov 03, 2000 3:11 pm

Sparky Sparky,<P>Well you are right about that but ideas can still be shared and passed from composers. This was my point referring to your comments. That even if Beethoven did not know Smetana, Beethoven would still have influenced him. As for the original question there is an old tale about the spelling of names...I'll post it later.<P>Nicole
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Fri Nov 03, 2000 3:19 pm

Okay, I'll buy that. The other possibility that I thought of is the intro to the fifth symphony, in which there are three short notes of roughly equal emphasis, which would translate to Sme'ta na, as opposed to Sme ta' na. Other than that, you've got me. Where is Treebeau in all this?
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Fri Nov 03, 2000 3:42 pm

What is even more intriguing is the story about Beethoven's connection with Morse Code. The first four notes of Beethoven's Symphony #5 correspond to the dot-dot-dot-dash code for the letter V, which is 5 in Roman numerals. Trouble is, Morse did not do his code thing until 20 years after Ludwig's death. Unless, of course, Morse deliberately picked that code because of its connection with the 5th Symphony.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Nov 03, 2000 4:03 pm

Ya' beat me to my story. Thanks Sparky!<P> Image
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Sat Nov 04, 2000 11:55 am

Nicole, I am sooo sorry. I feel like the Grinch. Now I will have major Jewish guilt all weekend long. Maybe I'll just shut up for a while.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby treebeau » Mon Nov 06, 2000 10:57 am

Hi all, sorry, I was feeling ill on Friday and was not able to check this board until this morning.<P>I think Nicole Marie knows to what I am referring and I like how she is keeping quiet about it for interests sake.<P>Nobody has it yet.<P>About the timeline discrepancy, please note how I refered to "legend has it that..." and "supposedly." I put that in because I double checked and saw the discrepancy as well.<P>The first 4 notes of the fifth (repeated) are supposed to be akin to "Fate knocking on one's door."<P>
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Re: Name that tune

Postby treebeau » Mon Nov 06, 2000 11:10 am

Two more clues.<P>1. It is not vocal...just a set of 3 notes, repeated 3 times.<P>2. It is not from any of the symphonies.<BR>
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Re: Name that tune

Postby EJA_2 » Mon Nov 06, 2000 3:32 pm

You guys are killing me. I can't find the answer to this one anywhere. Please! Out with it.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby treebeau » Mon Nov 06, 2000 4:05 pm

Howdy. I posted the question less than a week ago. There seems to have been only a few guesses.<P>I'm pretty sure that Nicole knows. Nicole, please don't spill the beans yet.<P>One (1) more clue though.<P>It's RIGHT THERE at the beginning of the piece.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby treebeau » Thu Nov 09, 2000 1:24 pm

The answer is:<P>The "Fidelio Overture", opus 72b.<P>The first 9 notes are 3 notes repeated 3 times (followed by 2 extras). The accents are on the first note of each set of 3.<P>Next time you hear it listen for:<BR>Sme'-te-na<BR>SMe'-te-na<BR>SME'-te-na (Bump bump!)<P>I hoped that this would generate lots of discussion and guesses. I'll try to do better another time.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby EJA_2 » Thu Nov 09, 2000 4:12 pm

Thanks! It piqued my interest anyway. Not one of my greatest areas of expertise, unfortunately. I don't have much talent when it comes to associating a piece of music with a name. I can remember lots of music, I just can't associate the sounds with the names. It's OK though because my visual memory makes other folks jealous. Next time I hear Fidelio, I'll be listening really carefully! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by treebeau:<BR><B>The answer is:<P>The "Fidelio Overture", opus 72b.<P>The first 9 notes are 3 notes repeated 3 times (followed by 2 extras). The accents are on the first note of each set of 3.<P>Next time you hear it listen for:<BR>Sme'-te-na<BR>SMe'-te-na<BR>SME'-te-na (Bump bump!)<P>I hoped that this would generate lots of discussion and guesses. I'll try to do better another time.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>
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Re: Name that tune

Postby shostakovich » Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:38 am

I've been enjoying the bulletin board immensely. There was an interesting "legend" proposed that Beethoven (1770-1827) and Smetana (1824-84) were friends. It's unlikely that Beethoven even babysat Smetana, given his hearing problems. As for the musical work with 3 pronunciations of "Smetana", I vote for the opening of the Radetzky March by Johann Strass Sr. as a sound-alike (unintentional, since he died when Smetana was only 25).
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Re: Name that tune

Postby Sparky » Tue Nov 28, 2000 8:39 am

Almost, but not quite. Radetzky does have the three triplets, but the emphasis is on the third note of each triplet. I doubt that Smetana pronounced his name with the emphasis on the third syllable.
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Re: Name that tune

Postby shostakovich » Tue Nov 28, 2000 11:21 am

Hi Sparky. My recordings emphasize the first notes of the triplets. At least, I hear it that way. I wonder what others think. (Fan of) Shostakovich.
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