Attending a concert and behaviour? American Style?

[monkeymd2b]

I think it's funny the way some people react when they find out what music I listen to. I feel somewhat inferior to my friends because they know the words to almost every single mainstream radio song while I seem to have burned into my brain the melodies of all the classical pieces I have on cds and those that are played often on this station. The biggest reason for this is that I can't concentrate on studying (which I should be doing right now ) if I'm listening to a song with words. And of course it's just enjoyable stuff! Anyway, when I had to take my stero in to be fixed due to one of my favorite classical cds being jammed (gasp!), I took in the cd case and begged the guy not to break or mess up the cd if possible and when he saw what it was, he said, "wow you listen to classical music?" in a tone of awe like it was so impressive or something. I don't get it but I guess that's because I really don't hold any genre of music as being over the rest. I better get back to studying :p

[brickroot]

I will only bring out the suit on Saturday night Mellon Grand Classic Concerts. Thorny I see you attend Cornell? nice

[BenMurphy6]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> respect for the music and the performers is exhibited in behavior, not dress, and any unyielding expectations (on either side of the podium) are just symptoms of backwards priorities <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>dave, that is exactly right. it's a concert, not some "see and be seen" social event. i don't think that people should wear shorts and a t-shirt to concerts, there should after all be some decorum. but condemning people for not wearing fancy enough clothes is just unfair and misses the point. everyone is there for the music.<P>that said, i think talking, cell phones, and candy unwrapping is simply unacceptable. nothing makes me more angry <P>coughing is tough to avoid, but it always seems to happen at the worst times.

[DEREK]

I agree that in this day and age, people don't know to act not only at a concert but anywhere! I just wrote to our local paper about the same subject. Any movie you go to you will find not only kids but adults talking and carrying on as if they are at home. I do not see any end to this in the future and I am afraid that it will only get worse. Too bad for all of us. Derek

[barfle]

If I wore a coat and tie to a Rolling Stones concert, I would stick out like a sore thumb. If I wore a ripped metalhedd t-shirt to see the National Symphony, I would stick out like a sore thumb.<P>Classical music may well be the genre of geezers like me and elite like I wannabe. I don't figure it's necessary to use a phony accent or anything like that when I'm at a symphony, but I realize that I'm seeing something special, being performed for me by people who worked at least as hard as I did to achieve their status in their profession.<P>I've always thought of attending a symphony as a special event, and I tend to treat special events special, in part by dressing appropriately. There's an old, old, Fred Astaire movie called "Top Hat." It's about as dumb a movie as I've ever seen, but there's one song in it where Fred is getting all dressed up for a night out, and he's really happy and excited about it. That kind of expresses how I feel about dressing up for a symphony.

[DavidEB310]

BTW,<P>I am not putting anyone down for not having the best clothes to wear to a concert -- but, attempt to be neat and wear the best you have -- folks, times are tough. And the furthest thing from my mind is having the attitude that because I attend an evening at a concert hall I have superior tastes. If that is the case, what kind of taste did I have when I dressed in frayed shorts and tie-dyes and partied to the Grateful Dead, or popped on a pinstriped jersey and hit the Bronx for a Yankees' game? Then there are the country concerts I attended...(no suit and ties there!)<P>Personally, I enjoy putting on a suit and tie possibly because I wear jeans and casual clothes everyday to work. And, even though we're very business casual, I will sometimes even don a tie to work because believe it or not, it makes me feel more productive.<P>Suits are not restrictive, unless it were a suit of armour. Plus, women become very attentive to a man who is neat and dressed in a nice suit. There are certainly advantages!<P>Eugene, all people are stubborn, however, I'm guessing you'll find that your perceptions of adults will change when you are an adult yourself with children. For those of us who are parents, we all said the same thing when we were kids, and then we learned how little we really knew until we had kids of our own. <P>P.S. I now know...My Parents were right!<BR> <p>[ 11-14-2002: Message edited by: DavidEB310 ]

[priya978]

I honestly don't want to have a family, I'de rather just be by myself, it's sets me at ease not being around people. And, just for the record, I wear nice casual clothes to a concert. Like a sweater, not knit sweater, but just a sweater, jeans, and a shirt or something, that are for the most part brand-new, or look brand new. I suppose that if I ever go to a big concert, like the L.A. Phil. I'll wear what you guys are wearing usually, a dress shirt, slacks, etc. but usually I don't, I just dress the way I want and I feel, what I like, etc.<P>And David, I don't get what your trying to say, are you trying to say that children can't be opinionated, or aren't opinionated. Or are you trying to say that their opinions are wrong. Clarify.

[Blackberry]

Kudos on your thoughts, Mr. Dave Christiansen. I've often wondered about the taboo on clapping between movements. Sometimes, I feel like my going to burst if I don't express my enthusiasm over the last few minutes of music. Sometimes, I wish I could shout and applaud during the performance. A piano deut of "Rhapsody in Blue" at my college motivated me that way. That one reason I enjoy outdoor performances, though others noises can interrupt them. People don't mind if you hum along when you're outside, but then they aren't right next to you either. (If I could convince the orchestra not to play the 1812 every year, I'd be more happy.)<P>We could talk long and hard about respect and the decline of general morality; but with regard to dress code , I would encourage every city's orchestra guild to encourage, but not enforce their dress codes(especially if it's tuxedos--grief). I think Dave has spoken insightfully about its implications on culture and what it communicates about symphonic music. Again, kudos to Dave.

[monkeymd2b]

eugene, relax! I don't think he was knocking young people nor has any opinion that they aren't capable of having valid opinions. It really has nothing to do with having kids but the fact is that as you get older, your ideas will change. When I was younger, I absolutely hated that I had to dress up for concerts (my mom wouldn't let me leave the house until I was wearing something she deemed appropriate for the occasion). Now that I'm 25, I personally find it fun when I have the opportunity to get dressed up especially since I now spend many hours huddled over textbooks wearing only jeans and tshirts (though I'm still annoyed at the fact that I'm going to have to dress up all the time when I start clinical medicine rotations just to have some patient's bodily fluids splash on my spendy outfit). I think your thoughts are valid but David just pointed out that they reflect the age group to which you belong.

[barfle]

Dave and Blackberry:<P>One thing that's a LOT different about operas and ballets from symphonies is that the audience breaks into applause at the slightest feat of the performers!

[Mr Mustard]

I used to regularly buy standing room tickets at the Metropolitan Opera in NYC, and there it was de rigueur to wear informal clothes. By agreeing to stand through something like the Ring cycle, for example, you proved that you were committed to the music and respected it. The clothes didn't matter.<P>What I find really bizarre is the fact that people will applaud, or even give a standing ovation to, just about anything. I once sat through a catastrophic performance by the Chamber Orchestra of Europe (Nikolaus Harnoncourt conducting) in which the musicians repeatedly made really obvious, glaring mistakes, and they got a hefty round of applause from everyone. I know it might be considered rude to boo a bad performance, but at least people should give a little less applause...

[DavidEB310]

monkeymd2b,<P>nicely put. Thank you!

[Nicole Marie]

I have to agree with DavidEB310 in his last posting where he stated "attempt to be neat and wear the best you have".<P>When I go to punk shows (yes I am a big fan of punk) there is a certain etiquette, there are things you do and don't do, clothing you wear and don't wear. When I go to a classical concert there is also a code of behavior. <P>There are codes of behavior in everything we do. When a man and woman walk down the street the man is closest to the road. You place your napkin on your lap, you don't burp in public, you say please and thank you, you hold a door open for the person ahead or behind you (I notice a big lack of door holding lately). To often I have seen people wearing jeans and T-shirts to classical concerts, please don't. You don't have to wear a tux but do put on something nice. <P>Yesterday when I was talking about this issue on the air, I received a great email from Paul in CA who said it best, "When you are in the presence of greatness (musicians, composers, classical music) then why not give them your best as well?" That settles it for me.

[DavidEB310]

Nicole,<P>When I use to hang out at Ramones shows, fortunately, Joey never said anything about my ripped jeans. <P> Okay, maybe it's because they saw that I knew all the words! Thanks for the input...you're right on too; there's a time and place for all styles!

[Kevin]

As to clapping between movements in a piece, I tend to agree with my colleague Dave as to its having created a pretentiousness that has gotten classical music into a heap of trouble staying approachable for a lot of people. I have to say that I tend to like to dress up for concerts, as it lends a sort of "special occasion" excitement for me, personally, that adds to the overall enjoyment. But, then, I am the son of a preacher who has actually been caught mowing the lawn in a tie!<P>An interesting historical note about clapping bewteen performances: this taboo is really a 20th century phenomenon. In classical times and earlier, it has been well documented that people would not only clap for movements they liked, but would even clap for sections or melodies they enjoyed or recognized during the performance! That reminds me of an Al Di Meola (jazz/fusion guitarist) concert I went to many years ago. People would stand up and applaud great licks! It made for a really enjoyable and electric performance, I can tell you. It also made it obvious that the people in the audience were knowledgable enough to know what was good when they heard it. That alone was inspiring.<P>Kevin Shively<BR>Beethoven.com<P>"I love Beethoven, especially the poems." <BR>- Ringo Starr

[davechristiansen]

punk, classical, dead shows, barbershop quartets... whatever. <P>if people are disturbed by your being "out-of-place" at a concert because of what you wore, then they're the one's whose "dedication" is in question. why should i feel unwelcome at a punk concert cause i didn't have time to spike my hair, or uncomfortable at a dead show cuz' i came from work in my three-piece-suit? how very un-punk of you. <P>these are some of the main reasons i don't go to concerts as much anymore... i don't want to be bothered with feeling like i'm interrupting someone's social event because i don't know their secret handshake. i am one of the most respectful listeners you're likely to encounter, because i _listen_, not because i do or don't dress the part.<P>this controversy is world's apart from holding doors or saying please and thank you. i've met some unbelieveably polite bums, just like i've met (more than) a few @%%holes in three-piece-suits. <P>i can understand the argument about "respect", and i like getting dressed-up occasionally too, but what is it that you're paying respect to? my doctor spent years in medical school to be able to look down my throat, but i'm sure not putting on my Sunday best to sit in his waiting room. Besides, is that really what deserves respect? someone's "training"? sounds like a caste-system to me. again, i know some record store employees that i think deserve more of my respect than the bulk of the symphony players i've met. i think Thoureau said something about being suspicious of anything that requires new clothes. <P>davec :p

[DavidEB310]

THAT's IT...I'm turning off B.com until I can find my favorite tie!

[squib]

I think people are a little disillusioned if they think that in the "old days" people where always quiet at the symphony and always dressed up etc etc. Yes when I was a kid all politicians were honest and a loaf of bread cost a ha'penny. <BR>The fact is that during Mozart's performances people would talk and their would be crying babies etc. He often performed for the masses ie you and I. In fact much of what we call "classical music" was at one time supposed to be danced to at parties and people had a good time not all of this high brow "art for art's sake" baloney. (Yes the Waltz, the Gavotte, the Minuet, the Bouree are all DANCES ie think Macarena) It is only very recently that people where expected to sit quietly on their hands and listen to classical music. I think being uptight about it will only fuel the demise of classical music. <P>Think of it this way in 200 years people will be complaining that audiences just don't appreciate the great works of the Rolling Stones, Metallica, and Britney Spears because they whisper during the concert, cough at the MOST INAPPROPRIATE times, and dress like such VAGABONDS.

[thornhill]

On clapping in between movements...<P>Interesting story:<BR>During Leopold Stokowski's tenure at the Philadelphia Orchestra, he didn't want audiences to clap at all, not even at the end of a piece. He felt that "spiritual silence" was the best way to honor the performance. He has some remark like, "when you see a beautiful painting you do not applaud." In the end, the matter was settled by polling subscribers. The right to applaud won out 710 to 199. <P>Personally, I think there are times when it is, and isn't appropriate to applaud in between a movement. Certain works have the ability to really suck you in and be transcendental experiences. Some times the breaks in between movements are essentially just long rests. An outside sound (one not generated by the symphony or score) can pull you out of the experience. Furthermore, the time in between movements can also function as self reflection time (Mahler requests that there be a 5 minute break after the first mvt of the 2nd symphony for personal reflection). Here's an example of when not to clap: Mahler Symphony 5 - though I don't know this for sure, I think that the reason that there isn't any kind of break inbetween the end of the Adagietto and beginning of the Finale is because Mahler and conductors don't want to take any chance of the mood being broken by clapping. If you have ever heard the Adagietto live, it truly can be a transcendental experience, you want it to just go on forever. <P>In my book, clapping in between movements is fine with something like a suite since each movement is basically an individual work. Suites also don't tend to be as fluid across movements as a symphony or concerto. I have yet to hear a performance of Mendelssohn's <I>A Midsummer Night's Dream</I> live (either in person or on the radio) where the audience didn't clap after the overture (It's such a full blooded, tremendous piece that I always clap after it). Interestingly, conductors always act surprised when this happens with AMND. From just talking about it I have to go pop in my Szell recording...

[audiogirl]

Nicole, I think that attire and manners in general both have do something with courtesy. If you show up to a classical concert/play/production wearing something nice, it shows (to me) that you think an event is special enough to warrant wearing something special.<P>I also think it means more to us if we go to the trouble to wear something nice.<P>I'll admit I was a little insulted when one of my husband's friends showed up at our wedding in a T-shirt and shorts.