<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by serge urtizberea:<BR><B>That's not exactly true, Peter. Beethoven set out the tempos at the start of each mov't, then let the conductor take over. Besides, a composer of 30 years would know if his conducting was actually being followed or not, don't you think?<BR>Another thing: at the end of the symphony, you'd think Beethoven would know it was over-- you know, seeing the players put down the instruments, etc.-- and that the audience would be applauding. Perhaps B. just didn't really want to turn around at all for some reason, but felt obliged to when the contralto bade him do so.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can`t really agree here, Serge. Beethoven may have been allowed to start off the orchestra in each movement, but after just a few bars, the musicians would have, intuitively, looked towards the real conductor, since he & Beethoven must have already been at odds, by that stage.<P>Personally, I do not believe that Beethoven would have noticed the musicians finishing a movement. By then, he was already living `outside` of himself. The occasion of the premiere must have so overwhelmed the master. I think that he knew he was not much longer for this world, & that this meisterwerk was his symphonic farewell. He was not going to let a trivial detail such as his deafness spoil his last great public appearance. The public had his music in their ears, but, out of sync though it might have been, his child`s heart was beating inside of his own.<P> That night, he played the entire symphony in his head; it was an enormously personal experience, & he would have been so immersed in himself, that I do not believe that he would have been aware of the orchestra dropping bows or anything else. The buiding could have been on fire, & Beethoven would not have noticed.