Roll Over Beethoven

[Michael]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter:<BR><B> Michael, I agree 100%, although I don`t see the special significance of being 54! I can surprise you by revealing that I, too, am a huge Abba fan. Their songs are only surpassed in melodic quality by The Beatles (plus, of course, they had Agnetha....swoon....).<P>So, of course you should listen to whoever you like. Anyone at all. Absolutely anyone. Except Westlife </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It was just one Westlife song. And it was over Christmas - a time when even Benjamin Britten sounds good.<BR>I'm amazed at the reaction to my Abba confession, from you and Leslie. I am not alone, then!<BR>Could I go back to Mike Oldfield for a minute? I noted your "zzzzzzz" - and, in fairness, a few of his albums are a good cure for insomnia. But try "Tubular Bells 2" (far superior to the original), especially the last five or six tracks. I'm not trying to say he is a truly great composer, but, when you consider the competition (and I'm talking about so-called "serious" composers) he is streets ahead.<BR>I have a soft spot for Elvis.<BR>Michael<P>[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-12-2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Michael]

I seem to have posted the previous message twice and I'm not sure how to delete it without sending another one.<P>Michael<p>[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Peter]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael:<BR><B> It was just one Westlife song. And it was over Christmas - a time when even Benjamin Britten sounds good.<BR>I'm amazed at the reaction to my Abba confession - from you and Leslie. I am not alone, then!<BR>Could I go back to Mike Oldfield for a minute? I noted your "zzzzzzz" - and, in fairness, a few of his albums are a good cure for insomnia. But try "Tubular Bells 2" (far superior to the original), especially the last five or six tracks. I'm not trying to say he is a truly great composer, but, when you consider the competition (and I'm talking about so-called "serious" composers) he is streets ahead.<BR>I have a soft spot for Elvis.<BR>Michael<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>A few points: <P>Benjamin Britten doesn`t even sound good at Christmas (don`t quite get the connection there?);<P>I am guessing that, with your interest in movies, your regard for Mr. Oldfield is in some way connected with "The Exorcist" (incidentally. just before Christmas, I happened to share a plane cabin with the Tubular Bells man, but didn`t bother to strike up a conversation in case it ended in zzzzzzzz);<P>Anyone who does not have a soft spot for Elvis is also lacking a heartbeat.<P>PS. I don`t think that Leslie is an Abba fan, unless I read her wrong!

[Michael]

Oops! I did read Leslie's reply wrongly. Apologies, Leslie, for thinking you were an Abba fan!<BR>Peter, my interest in Oldfield has nothing at all to do with the "Excorcist", though it's another favourite film of mine. I don't even like "Tub Bells 1" all that much, but a good half-dozen of his later albums are great.<BR>Did I read you correctly? Were you sitting next to Mike Oldfield and you didn't bother talking to him? I don't believe it.<BR>I suppose I would react the same way if I found myself sitting next to Benjamin Britten. Or I'd call the Excorcist.<P>Michael

[Peter]

Michael, I wasn`t sitting next to him - he was a few seats ahead of me in the cabin, but apart from the two people in his company, I`m sure that I was the only other passenger to recognise him. There were plenty of opportunities to speak with him, but not being a fan, I let it go. On reflection, I suppose I could have, at least, "thanked" him for his 1976 no.4 British hit single, Portsmouth, that splendid sea shanty named for my home town.<BR>One other thing about Oldfield. He has no stuffiness about him at all. I have seen him on tv being (affectionately) laughed at & pilloried for being boring, yet he took it all with such good grace, that it was difficult to not feel admiration for him. He is a good sport!<P>Edited bit:<P>PS. Had I been sitting next to Benjamin Britten, I might well have passed comment on how much weight he`d lost recently. <p>[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 01-13-2001).]

[Peter]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Leslie:<BR><B>I can surprise you by revealing that I, too, am a huge Abba fan. <BR>Oh no, not you too Peter!!!!<BR>(plus, of course, they had Agnetha....swoon....).<BR>Always a sucker for a pretty face..........<BR>So, of course you should listen to whoever you like. Anyone at all. Absolutely anyone. Except Westlife <BR>I'm sure I'm not missing anything, but WHO is Westlife?~ <BR> <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for the enquiry, Les. Westlife is one of a proliferation of so-called boy bands, here in the UK. Theirs is utterly vacuous pop, la creme de la creme being an ulcer-inducing "interpretation" of Jacques Brel`s heartbreaking Seasons in the Sun. The band is extremely popular with girls aged 4 to 17 (probably slightly too young to appreciate Beethoven). Re the depth of their music, suffice to say that to fully appreciate the various nuances, foibles & intricasies of their emotional outpourings, one`s brain would need the absorption capacity of a teabag. No offence, lads

[Michael]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peter:<BR>I suppose I could have, at least, "thanked" him for his 1976 no.4 British hit single, Portsmouth, that splendid sea shanty named for my home town.<BR>(edited 01-13-2001).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I forgot about "Portsmouth". So your home town is perpetuated in music by Mike Oldfield. Well, I can do much better than that. My home town is mentioned in two works by none other than Beethoven himself! <BR>(smirk)<BR>Michael<P>

[~Leslie]

Peter, re Westlife:<P>Oh dear,<P>That is what I feared........<P>~#:P<P>Which nearly brings this thread I have been hiding out in, full circle, poor Louie must be indeed rolling in his grave. <P>A few personal New Year resolutions are in order:<P>I promise to seek out more of the types of music and writings being discussed in these forums, including Luis's sovereign Mahler,<BR>Opus 67's Brahms, more of the late period Beethoven, Euphony's recommended David Kinman,<BR>Serge's recommendation of Solomon's bio, Suzie's Beethovens Nephew, Shos's Shostokovich.<P>I promise to practice more, too, maybe cut another recording. Ciao!

[Luis]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ~Leslie:<BR><B> <P>A few personal New Year resolutions are in order:<BR>I promise to seek out more of the types of music and writings being discussed in these forums, including Luis's sovereign Mahler,<BR>Opus 67's Brahms, more of the late period Beethoven, Euphony's recommended David Kinman,<BR>Serge's recommendation of Solomon's bio, Suzie's Beethovens Nephew, Shos's Shostokovich.<P>I promise to practice more, too, maybe cut another recording. Ciao! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mahler: Start with his 2nd<P>Brahms: Violin concerto, Intermezzos (you are going to love them!), 2nd Piano concerto, 1st piano trio, Piano quartets.<P>Later Beethoven?...ALL!!!...Ok... (I suppose you already have most of this but just in case I'll make it detailed):<BR>Cello sonata op. 102, piano sonatas op. 110 and 111*, Diabelli Variations op. 120, Missa Solemnis op. 123*, Symphony No. 9 op. 125*, String quartets op. 127*, 130* and 132*<P>The ops with an * are absolutely "must have".<P>What else...? Ah...Solomon...AVOID SOLOMON!!!! If you want facts -not having read it- Thayer-Forbes is the most reputed; if you want fantasy and speculation (but in this case a sincere one) or mere entertaining reading there is a 3 volume novel called "The Last Master" by John Suchet...<P><p>[This message has been edited by Luis (edited 01-14-2001).]

[Luis]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luis:<BR>[B] Mahler: Start with his 2nd<P>Brahms: Violin concerto, Intermezzos (you are going to love them!), 2nd Piano concerto, 1st piano trio, Piano quartets.<P>Later Beethoven?...ALL!!!...Ok... (I suppose you already have most of this but just in case I'll make it detailed):<BR>Cello sonata op. 102, piano sonatas op. 110 and 111*, Diabelli Variations op. 120, Missa Solemnis op. 123*, Symphony No. 9 op. 125*, String quartets op. 127*, 130* and 132*<P>The ops with an * are absolutely "must have".<P>What else...? Ah...Solomon...AVOID SOLOMON!!!! If you want facts -not having read it- Thayer-Forbes is the most reputed; if you want fantasy and speculation (but in this case a sincere one) or mere entertaining reading there is a 3 volume novel called "The Last Master" by John Suchet...

[shostakovich]

This Roll Over Beethoven post has been a real Roller coaster. I have a question about Tubular Bells. Does anyone else hear a variant of THE Dies Irae (Berlioz, Liszt, Saint-Saens and many others)? Maybe the reference to The Exorcist put me onto that track. Do you know if it was written independently of the film, and just incorporated?<P>As for Benjamin Britten, I'm going to post my question as a new topic.<P>Leslie, your new year's resolutions will take years to fulfill. The real Shostakovich has communicated to me the following message. "My music is an acquired taste. My best takes patience. My forbidden music takes more than patience, and requires an understanding of the Soviet era." Just about there I lost contact. When you are ready to start your Shostakovich journey, let me know what music of his you have already absorbed. <BR>Shos

[Michael]

I think the use of the opening theme from "Tubular Bells" in the "Exorcist" has done a disservice to Mike Oldfield. In fact, only a few seconds of it are used on two occasions during the course of the film. The music itself was well established before William Friedkin decided that it would suit his film.<BR>I don't know about the Dies Irae theme being used in Olfield's piece. I doubt if it's anywhere alluded to - maybe Tim could spot it? I think it's the Exorcist connection that has people looking for it - and the music came first and is not in any way satanic.<BR>Re Benjamin Britten, I have found only two things wrong with him:<BR>1. Everything he said<BR>2. Everything he did.<P>Michael

[shostakovich]

Hi Michael,<BR> Thanks for the Oldfield update. And by the way, your application to the Benjamin Britten Fan Club has been denied.<BR> S. for B.B.

[serge urtizberea]

Leslie, don't listen to Luis, who clearly thinks that thinking frankly deserves a lifetime of reproach. Solomon's bio is a beautiful book, as far as I'm concerned. It's fine and good to read something written like 100 years ago but just as good to read some new insight in a personality already documented to death. I truly hope you do read it, and please let me know what you think of it--one way or the other.<P>This thread was a refreshing thing to read after my short absence. I want to say that the speculations that you all have about what Beethoven would have done were he alive today are totally moot. ANYTHING could happen. Beethoven would, first of all, have been raised under different cultural influences. As far as I think, he'd likely would have become a pianist, not a composer. No market anymore for a c.m. composer unless you're writing that inane tripe that passes for "modern". He'd play the great works of Bach, Handel, Schumann, Lizt, Rachmaninoff, and Schubert, who could very well have aspired to great heights were it not for Ludwig. Unless, of course, his inspiration lay with Ludwig... in which case... see what I mean? Too moot.

[Luis]

<B>To Leslie</B><P>I assume you have your ears already “trained”/accustomed with late romantic symphonies from less “radical” composers...don’t you? If you don’t, I have my doubts you’d like Mahler. In that case you HAVE to listen first something like Tchaikovsky’s 6th* or 5th as well as Dvorak’s 9th* or 8th. But still (and PLEASE don’t get me wrong here!!) I have my doubts about a woman liking Mahler. Although Mahler has some really touching and delicate melodies, I find his music somehow too masculine. What do you guys and girls think about this? I’m not saying women can’t enjoy very energic music. It’s other thing... I don’t know...<BR>

[Peter]

Luis, I think you just about stopped in time, there. Any more, & your face might well have ended up being posted on dartboards, in women`s clubs & institutes, all over the world. I mean, who needs that kind of fame?

[~Leslie]

Luis, My ears are trained to neo-fusion jazz which involves complex polyrhythms, genres (including Latin, Nordic, Celtic and African )mixed inside a gigantic melting cauldron, some of it has dominant tonality/some of it does not, I also prefer rich experimental timbres, both acoustic & electronic, and instrumental improvisation that demonstrates unparalleled virtuosity, and can manage quite well without lyrics. Does this sound like your typical feminine taste in the sonic landscape? I didn't think so. ~

[Luis]

I'm very sorry Les if you interpreted mine as a sexist position. It's just you are the very first woman I know who can actually enjoy Mahler. I probably should congratulate you for this, but I won’t since you are going to call me sexist again!

[~Leslie]

Luis, The internet being what it is, should lend an impervious immunity to the ever- assailing onslaught. What I'd really like to do is find some ppl with an enormously expanded view of the history of music, it would make it easier to figure out what the next revolution will be. <P>I'm not talking about pop, flashes in the pan, or garbled rock, I'm thinking on a much grander scale. <P>I think music's history is a vast river with thousands of estuaries branching off in various directions. That is why baroque, classical,and neo-classical are remain so important to me, and why I ask moot questions like: What would Beethoven write were he alive today? . The old masters define where we came from, and give clues to as to where we are going. <P>Anyhow, I am v-e-r-y curious and cannot resist asking whether you have ever heard Uri Caine's Mahler album:<BR>Urlicht/Primal Light, and if so, did it shock your socks off?~

[Luis]

(To Leslie)<BR>A jazz pianist playing Mahler??!! I have to check that out!! I don't like Jazz (at all) but this is indeed intriguing... I'll later tell you.