Others.

[lliam]

My Son.
---------


Here is his little cambric frock
That I laid by in lavender so sweet,
And here his tiny shoe and sock
I made with loving care for his dear feet.

I fold the frock across my breast,
And in imagination, ah, my sweet,
Once more I hush my babe to rest,
And once again I warm those little feet.


Where do those strong young feet now stand?
In flooded trench, half numb to cold or pain,
Or marching through the desert sand
To some dread place that they may never gain.


God guide him and his men to-day!
Though death may lurk in any tree or hill,
His brave young spirit is their stay,
Trusting in that they'll follow where he will.


They love him for his tender heart
When poverty or sorrow asks his aid,
But he must see each do his part -
Of cowardice alone is he afraid.


I ask no honours on the field,
That other men have won as brave as he -
I only pray that God may shield
My son, and bring him safely back to me!

[lliam]

'Give my son a full military funeral'
=====================================

The mother of a Royal Marine who died in a helicopter crash said that she wanted a full military funeral for her son.

Ann Nichol, 58, from Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, said Colour Sgt John Cecil, 36, had died a hero, and she added: "It's not just my son; it's the country's son that we have lost."

Colour Sgt Cecil, a father of three, was one of eight servicemen from the Plymouth-based 3 Commando Brigade who died when the US CH46 Sea Knight crashed in the Kuwaiti desert.

"I saw the mangled helicopter on the news and cried and cried," Mrs Nichol recalled. "But I kept telling myself it would have been over quickly and he wouldn't have suffered. His regiment sent me a rose bush which I have planted in my garden. Each time I look at it I will think of John."

Mrs Nichol, a former auxiliary nurse, said she wept as she watched her son's body being brought back to Britain in a ceremony at RAF Brize Norton, Oxon. "I haven't slept much since," she said.

She was told the news of her son's death in a telephone call from a fellow soldier at the Stonehouse barracks in Plymouth. She said: "It felt as though my world had come to an end. It was the call all the mothers with sons out there dread.

"But at least I can look back at his life and think about all the things he achieved and all the things he did that made me happy." She added: "John certainly had no doubts about the war he was going into. He had a job to do and he was more than prepared for it.

"When he was home for Christmas we sat up until four o'clock on Boxing Day morning and he said: 'I want to fight for my country. It is what I have prepared for and if there is a bullet in a gun for me then I shoot or I will be shot'.

"In the end he died in an accident at the very beginning of the war. It was not the way he would have chosen to go."

<small>[ 06-15-2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: lliam ]</small>

[lliam]

I am so sad and miserable for my son. I can hardly stand the thought that he has flown to Kuhayt. (I can't spell the damn name of the place either). I think the issue that is most distressing for me is that the country doesn't believe we are at war.

My son is going to fight for the freedom of so many idiots and traitors that it makes me physically ill. Yet, he is doing the job he has chosen to do.

Where does a mother in Scottsdale, AZ find support?

[BenODen]

Hmm, that one is quite timeless. Was that about the second gulf war buildup?

The general topic is ages old. A plea from a mother who doesn't agree with the cause; fighting in the service of a country whose people don't even register the military build up as significant; fighting for the liberation of people that are morally repugnant, but repressed none the less. Stirring, most definitely.

-Benito

[lliam]

Hi Benito,
I'm a father of 3 sons & one daughter. I feel the sorrow and pain. I just wanted to put the mothers feelings across to every other mother who has sons in the armed forces as well as ourselves. Thank's
Lliam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[BenODen]

It's hard to not feel sorrow from that. I'm single and not draft age, but I still feel bad about the price, feel bad for the families of the soldiers. The hawks often want to repress this, but it's a real face of war.

When there is a noble cause that our youth are called to fight for, there's at least some hope and pride in that. When nobody but the politicians care and you can't take pride in their purpose, it's hard to not feel put down.

-Benito

[BenMurphy6]

morally repugnant??! sheesh.

[BenODen]

*laugh* I don't think that, just amplifying, since it is what some people feel about unjust wars... Or were you just making fun of my construction!? :p

-Benito

[BenMurphy6]

i assumed that's what you think. believe it or not, that wouldn't be the dumbest thing i've heard about gulf war part two.

[lliam]

Originally posted by BenMurphy6:
i assumed that's what you think. believe it or not, that wouldn't be the dumbest thing i've heard about gulf war part two.

---------------------------------------------
A memorial service for the six Royal Military policemen killed in Iraq is being held later at the regiment's headquarters in Chichester.
The investigation into exactly how they died will last several days, but the incident has already prompted a review of how British armed forces operate in Iraq.

[lliam]

Former Iraqi information minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf has reappeared for the first time since the fall of Baghdad.
The mouthpiece for Saddam Hussein - dubbed comical Ali because of his outrageous claims - has spoken to a Dubai-based television station.

what next, I ask myself??????

[lliam]

In the latest incident, one American military policeman was killed while investigating a car theft near the southern town of Najaf on Thursday.

In the past two days alone, incidents have included:


Clashes south-west of the Iraqi capital leaving a US soldier dead and eight wounded

Assailants blowing up a US military vehicle with a roadside bomb

A rocket-propelled grenade attack on US vehicles travelling towards the airport, killing the Iraqi driver of a US vehicle.

Demolition of an oil pipeline.

Why do these uncivilised middle easterners, kill people who have rescued them??????

[Serenity]

I don't understand it either. It is difficult to be impartial. The information we get has a "slant"; the "slant" depending on where it is coming from. All we can do is follow it more thoroughly and ask lots of questions to understand all points of view better before forming an opinion.

There is a devil sitting on my other shoulder, whispering in my other ear...I can't really write what it's saying. It's my conscience that must strike a balance.

I'm taking some time off this week. One of the books I intend to read will be titled "The World's Religions". Hopefully that will help and make me a bit more sympathetic.

Remember what the 4th of July stands for!

[barfle]

Why do these uncivilised middle easterners, kill people who have rescued them??????

I considered your question to be sarcastic, but Serenity seems to feel it was genuine, so in either case, I'll provide some thoughts...

Well, maybe because they didn't ask to be "rescued?"

Maybe because they don't consider it a "rescue," they consider it an "invasion?"

Maybe because they feel they are being overrun by foreigners, if not infidels?

Maybe because they see even more chaos than before the "rescue?"

Maybe because the SOB you know is better than the SOB you don't know?

Nahh, it couldn't be any of those things.

[OperaTenor]

I find it odd and disconcerting that the very individuals who decry our "invasion" don't seem to reflect that, had it not been for our "invasion" they wouldn't have their present freedom of expression. And, if they're so anxious to be rid of our polluting presence, why don't they take steps to bring their own country under control instead of whining about there not being enough US troops to enforce security? I can manage to keep myself from commiting violent crimes without having someone there to make sure I don't do it. It's called self-discipline. They need to get some.

JMHO, of course.

I read with great interest Haggis' account of 20th century middle-eastern history from the banned-from-b.com "SSB" thread (thanks again, Ethan). Yes, westerners have screwed them over royally for the last hundred years, but I don't feel that absolves them of their individual personal responsibility to their fellow countrymen/women to treat them with decency and repsect. It may be impossible to right the wrongs we have commited on them, and I believe our government has no imperialistic designs as far as Iraq is concerned. I also believe if they could demonstrate the ability to work together without trying to gain some sort of factional supremacy over the other ethnic/religious groups, we would get the hell out and leave them alone.

Of course, maybe I'm too idealistic and naive.

<small>[ 06-27-2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: operatenor ]</small>

[BenODen]

Nobody said it'd make sense.. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the many of the people who are crying 'Invasion' are the same ones who wanted to have Sadam in power, but they are probably in the minority... Since he's still alive, it could be they want to kick us out before we empower the majority in the country that actually likes having Sadam Hussain gone. I'm no expert in foreign affairs, but that seems to be a likely candidate.

Or maybe they're just not convinced that we'll actually let them rule their country, given the experience with power in the past...

I don't know for sure, but it's sure a mess.. In the back of my mind I do wonder if we'll be able to get a democratic (or semi...) government in place before we're so unpopular in Iraq that the whole country rises up and we have to leave. Enough weapons around on all sides that this would not be pretty....

-Benito

[Serenity]

"What is best in life?"

"Crush your enemies! See them driven before you! And to hear the lamentation of their women!"
-Conan the Barbarian

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Local tradition. Politics of the entire region seems to be that there are two states of political being: in power (oppressing all other power groups) and not in power (seeking to gain power in order to oppress the other groups).

My impression is that the local seeking-to-gain-power groups are not in immediate fear for their lives, and therefore feel that there is some sort of opportunity to overthrow the "soft" invaders (that'd be us, folks) and become the new heads of state.

The whole notion of sharing power and promoting the general good is completely foreign to these people. It'll take at least a full generation and probably more before they even halfway believe it.

This has nothing to do with their religon. Their coreligionists in our country don't act this way, and the Iraqis have been revolting since Hammurabi tried to impose uniform laws on the population, way back when.

I have no idea what to do with these folks. An enforced peace is a necessary start, but how we gonna do that? Anybody got good ideas?

[BenODen]

Interesting points Selma. I don't have any clue though!

Ya know, unfortunately the notion of power sharing is getting more and more foreign in the mainline politics of the USA too!

I'm not going point fingers, since there's plenty of finger pointing going on in our capitol already... However, some of the stuff they are bickering over in Washington seems like another case where 'Truth' is hard to devine for certain. If we had the hard incontrovertable data to show that one side or the other was right about war, tax cuts, and all these other issues we'd be all set, but it's probably too much to hope for.

I'm glad I'm not President... Things seem too uncertain to be so adamant about them.

BUT, if we can't settle things here where we've been working at it for 200+ years, it gives me this sinking feeling in my stomach about trying to settle these things elsewhere... We can only hope and pray.

-Benito

[Serenity]

If you leave it up to others, then you'll have to live with what others decide....this is not freedom. You have to be involved in the decision.