June 6th - D Day

[Valerie]

Hi

I just wanted to remember everybody that today is still known as D-Day, that day when the allied forces stormed the beaches to bring freedom to Europe.

First, I want to apologize for bringing this subject to the board, as I hate it when political viewpoints take over a thread, when this is a music bulletin board. However, the importance of what those brave men did on this day in 1944 cannot be forgotten.

As musicians, or those who love music, the first part of the 20th century is remarkable, when you look at the composers, what they lived through (some were imprissoned - lutislowski for example, i had a master class with him) and how it impacted their lives, and in turn, their music.

So, in my humble opinion, June 6th should always be remembered as special day for music too, as the composers who lived through the hell in Europe, or those who were forced to leave, were given the freedom to pursue their artistic endeavors, which luckily for us, we are able to enjoy, learn from and pass on, to future generations of musicians, and more importantly, all of mankind.

To all of you who have served in the armed forces, thank you - your sacrifices will never be forgotten.

[lliam]

I'm sorry strav,
I haven't seen it written in stone that this is a Music board. I thought Musical Notes was for discussions about music? As far as I'm concerned the Barracks is where we talk about our armed forces.
Lliam.

[lliam]

D-Day:
======

It is hard to conceive the epic scope of this decisive battle that foreshadowed the end of Hitler's dream of Nazi domination. Overlord was the largest air, land, and sea operation undertaken before or since June 6, 1944. The landing included over 5,000 ships, 11,000 airplanes, and over 150,000 service men.

After years of meticulous planning and seemingly endless training, for the Allied Forces, it all came down to this: The boat ramp goes down, then jump, swim, run, and crawl to the cliffs. Many of the first young men (most not yet 20 years old) entered the surf carrying eighty pounds of equipment. They faced over 200 yards of beach before reaching the first natural feature offering any protection. Blanketed by small-arms fire and bracketed by artillery, they found themselves in hell.

When it was over, the Allied Forces had suffered nearly 10,000 casualties; more than 4,000 were dead. Yet somehow, due to planning and preparation, and due to the valor, fidelity, and sacrifice of the Allied Forces, Fortress Europe had been breached.

[Marye]

I have walked the cemeteries in Normandy and wept.

[barfle]

Although I haven't been to Normandy, I live and work near the Arlington National Cemetery. I make it a point to take visitors there to show them just how expensive their liberties are, and how much would be wasted if they didn't make the effort to preserve them.

I also work with a number of people who were at one time considered refugees, fleeing various tyrants. They are now all citizens of the United States (it's a requirement for the job). I consider myself extremely fortunate to have enjoyed my freedoms since birth.

[Marye]

I have walked Arlington as well... I walk in remembrance.

[Valerie]

One day, I hope to get to France, but only to the beaches, I could care less about the rest of the country - I have never cared for the French (sorry, but I am being honest)

I want to pay homage - It's important to me.

Since I live near Barfle, I too make a trip one a year to Arlington and walk in remembrance.

When I have company, I always take them there - weather permitting.

June 6th has always been an important day for my family for many personal reasons which I really don't care to discuss. Now that my grandfather is gone (died in November at age 92) is has even more meaning.

[OperaTenor]

I'm a vet, but unfortunately have not yet had the chance to visit either Arlington or Normandy. I'm with you Strav, Normandy's the only part of France I've ever really been interested in seeing.

[Marye]

The beaches in Normandy made me gasp. When I saw Omah and Utah I felt sick... I thought, my God, those poor boys I have one more visit to France in me ... I wish to see Rimy Ridge and walk those fields...

[shostakovich]

I am personally wary of all statements of patriotism and any generalization that "We're better (or more important) than them", no matter who the "we" and "them" refer to. Good folks are good, and scumbums are scum for individual reasons, not by classification. "Patriotism" (by any group) tends to replace "good" by "us" with little effort to evaluate individuals as good or bad. Patriotism can be a lazy or stupid person's mask to hide behind.

There's an expression: "My country, right or wrong!" It's a great rallying cry, but it's bad idea to follow blindly. Most Germans bought into it during the Nazi rise to power. Was it a good motto then?
Shos (Not too lazy to judge people on their merits rather than class.)

[OperaTenor]

Hi Shos,

Were you responding to something you read on this thread? :confused:

OT(high density)

<small>[ 06-06-2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: operatenor ]</small>

[shostakovich]

Good question, OT. I was reacting more to what has been going on in our country (and others, no doubt) than what actually appeared on this thread. It's just that the thread reminded me.

It offends me when some lives (by classification) are more valuable than others. During the main part of the Iraq war American lives lost were noted by name (for all of us). British lives were occasionally counted. Iraqui lives (military and civilian) were generally disregarded except when caught on camera. I think this attitude is accepted by most people. It bothers me.

The visits of reflection at military cemeteries are an excellent idea. Again, I'm concerned that American dead may all be considered most "honorable", and allies and enemies less so, or not at all. This may not actually be happening in the minds of those who visited. I'm hoping that people who reflect can be open to the honorable of other nations, even though there is no mark on a grave that says "this guy was really a bum" to help us determine who not to bother with.

And Strav doesn't much care for the French. That reminded me of the "freedom fries", etc that demonstrated how even presumably intelligent members of congress could resort to such juvenile behavior ------ no doubt to enhance their voting base.

I may be overly touchy on the above subjects, but when the founding fathers spoke of equality, I bought into the words as a good motto, well beyond their intent. They did say "men", they intended "American", but not "slave". Well, the equality now extends to women and blacks. It took a hell of a long time. Now that we are much more globally bound in the 21st C, I would love to see national boundaries of the mind (but not the geographical ones) disappear.
Bloody Dreamer

I hope I'm getting a little clearer.

<small>[ 06-07-2003, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: shostakovich ]</small>

[lliam]

Statements About Patriotism“...
===================================
patriotism cannot go back to an innocent time before the murderous excesses of twentieth-century nationalism.” -Jean Bethke Elshtain, professor at University of Chicago“Patriotism having become one of our topics, Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determinedtone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” Butlet it be considered that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but thatpretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.” -Samuel Johnson, English author, scholar, and literary critic“Patriotism is proud of a country’s virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies; it alsoacknowledges the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with their own specific virtues. Thepride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country’s virtues and denies its deficiencies, while itis contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries. It wants to be, and proclaims itself to be,“the greatest,” but greatness is not required of a country; only goodness is.” -Sydney J. Harris,British-born U.S. journalist and reviewer“Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility.” -Richard Adlington, British author“Religion, morality, and patriotism are feelings that are manifested only when they are outraged.”-Karl Kraus, Austrian writer“What do we mean by patriotism in the context of our times? I venture to suggest that what wemean is a sense of national responsibility ... a patriotism which is not short, frenzied outbursts ofemotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.”- Adlai Stevenson, Americanstatesman“It becomes clear at once that patriotism undoubtedly belongs to the positive realm. The veryword says as much: love of fatherland. Or is that perhaps giving too lofty an appraisal of theconcept in the course of translating it? If the characteristic of true love is that it gives more than itasks, then the good patriot should examine his own sentiment. An inborn attachment to what isone’s own does not of itself deserve the name of love. If the state is at peace and is as well-governed as a human community can be, then the citizen’s loyalty to his country, his services to itin the forms of energy, devotion, and funds, in general coincide with his own vital interests. Thefatherland repays his loyalty by giving him safety, justice, and sometimes even freedom. Infulfilling his patriotic duties he is not performing an act of love. Only when the fatherland is indanger does his giving become a sacrifice, his serving a suffering, his loyalty a love.” -JohanHuizinga, Dutch historian“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people otherthan your own comes first.” -Charles De Gaulle, French general and president“I do not mean to exclude altogether the idea of patriotism. I know it exists, and I know it hasdone much in the present contest. But I will venture to assert, that a great and lasting war cannever be supported on this principle alone. It must be aided by a prospect of interest, or somereward.” -George Washington, first president of the U.S.“You'll never have a quiet world til you knock the patriotism out of the human race.” GeorgeBernard Shaw, Anglo-Irish playwright.

“Any relation to the land, the habit of tilling it, or mining it, or even hunting on it, generates thefeeling of patriotism. He who keeps shop on it, or he who merely uses it as a support to his deskand ledger, or to his manufactory, values it less.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson, U.S. writer“The world is a fine place. The only thing wrong with it is us. How little justice and humilitythere is in us, how poorly we understand patriotism!” -Anton Chekhov, Russian author“‘My country, right or wrong’ is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in adesperate case. It is like saying ‘My mother, drunk or sober’”. -Gilbert Keith Chesterton, Britishauthor“How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be ‘American’ before (or incontradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the sameintellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for ourshortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism!” -Edith Wharton, U.S. author“What is Americanism? Every one has a different answer. Some people say it is never to submitto the dictation of a King. Others say Americanism is the pride of liberty and the defense of aninsult to the flag with their gore. When some half-developed person tramples on that flag, weshould be ready to pour out the blood of the nation, they say. But do we not sit in silence whenthat flag waves over living conditions which should be an insult to all patriotism?”- Anne HowardShaw, U.S. minister, suffragette, and speaker

[lliam]

It never is difficult to find an educated or an ignorant opportunist who tries to hijack a legitimate grievance and claim representation of a suffering people. Their kind can be found among all types of groups and all forms of religion or ideals. Some are misguided in their sincerity while others are pre-meditated in their attempts at raising themselves from the valleys of obscurity by courting controversy and wrapping themselves with enough threads of legitimacy to garner attention and achieve self-promotion.


Fortunately for us all, President Bush and many in positions of responsibility have shown tremendous courage and wisdom in leadership and have set the correct tone for the country.
The fact that the president enjoys overwhelming support from the American people is a testimony to the level of isolation that such extremist viewpoints in their midst suffers from. Yet, we all recognize from the actions of the terrorist few on Sept. 11 the importance of constant vigilance in the protection of justice and liberty.



Prejudice and ignorance are the best allies of the extremists! Let us not allow self-serving opportunistic viewpoints to taint us and box us into a corner. Rather, let us all come together in standing up for what is right and just so that we can build a better world. It is the only one we have!

[shostakovich]

Thank you,Lliam, for culling the many quotes about patriotism. Many say to me "Be watchful of what you call patriotism." The recent "Patriot Act" is so named in order to have passed laws that cancel (somebody else's?) civil liberties for our "protection". I am not familiar enough with the language and intent to argue how necessary or unnecessary all the measures are. What I feel strongly is that this particular administration is the most lustful for power since Senator McCarthy's day. (I do believe he hoped to ride the witch hunt into the White House.) Bush-Rumsfeld-Ashcroft know nothing of restraint, decency, or feelings for others affected by the Patriot Act.
Lliam, my friend, I think distance may lend too much enchantment to your estimation of George Bush. To put the words "Bush" and "wisdom" in the same sentence is to not know the man or his history.
Respectfully, Shos

[dkm32]

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war. ...But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked [and] denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to damage."
--Herman Goering, Luftwaffe commander, at the Nuremberg

[lliam]

Originally posted by shostakovich:

Lliam, my friend, I think distance may lend too much enchantment to your estimation of George Bush. To put the words "Bush" and "wisdom" in the same sentence is to not know the man or his history.
Respectfully, Shos

=====================================
Shos old Buddy,
I know exactly how you feel about Mr. B as we have discussed this before.
However, I think past events speak for themselves. You no doubt know his Bio even so, I feel I must post it, enjoy. Shos, I must point out that, President G.W. Bush is revered here in the UK.
Lliam.
==========================================

President Bush was born on July 6, 1946, in New Haven, Connecticut, and he grew up in Midland and Houston, Texas. He received a bachelor's degree from Yale University in 1968, then served as an F-102 fighter pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. President Bush received a Master of Business Administration from Harvard Business School in 1975. After graduating, he moved back to Midland and began a career in the energy business. After working on his father's successful 1988 presidential campaign, he assembled the group of partners that purchased the Texas Rangers baseball franchise in 1989.
He served as managing general partner of the Texas Rangers until he was elected Governor on November 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. He became the first Governor in Texas history to be elected to consecutive four-year terms when he was re-elected on November 3, 1998, with 68.6 percent of the vote.
Since taking office, President Bush has signed into law bold initiatives to improve public schools by raising standards, requiring accountability, and strengthening local control. He has signed tax relief that provided rebate checks and lower tax rates for everyone who pays income taxes in America. He has increased pay and benefits for America's military and is working to save and strengthen Social Security and Medicare. He is also committed to ushering in a responsibility era in America, and has called on all Americans to be "citizens, not spectators; citizens, not subjects; responsible citizens building communities of service and a Nation of character."
The attacks of September 11th changed America - and in President Bush's words, "in our grief and anger we have found our mission and our moment." President Bush declared war against terror and has made victory in the war on terrorism and the advance of human freedom the priorities of his Administration. Already, the United States military and a great coalition of nations have liberated the people of Afghanistan from the brutal Taliban regime and denied al Qaeda its safe haven of operations. Thousands of terrorists have been captured or killed and operations have been disrupted in many countries around the world. In the President's words, "our Nation - this generation - will lift a dark threat of violence from our people and our future. We will rally the world to this cause by our efforts, by our courage. We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail."
President Bush is married to Laura Welch Bush, a former teacher and librarian, and they have twin daughters, Barbara and Jenna. The Bush family also includes their two dogs, Spot and Barney, and a cat, India.

[shostakovich]

"His fiery words and brilliant blue eyes seemed to hypnotize those who listened to him. Many Germans believed he was their protector and friend."

Adolph Hitler was born on April 20, 1889. He dreamed of the priesthood as a child. Artistic talent also blossomed. Following the assassination of archduke Ferdinand, Hitler joined the Bavarian army. He was wounded in 1916 and blinded in 1918. He spent 4 years in the trenches, and earned two iron crosses for bravery. Following the war, communists took control of Germany. He worked against them. His belief in German destiny and his gift for oratory gained him a following.

In 1930 Hitler's Nazi party captured 18% of the vote. In 1932 he ran for president and got 30% of the vote, second only to President von Hindenburg. He joined his party with Hindenburg's and was named chancellor. The German economy had been in shambles since war's end, and Hitler set about improving it. In 1934 Hindenburg died, and Hitler assumed his office. He industrialized and built a strong military.

In 1938 he annexed Austria and liberated Czech Sudetenland. His armies, joined by those of his coalition partner, Mussolini, enjoyed successes in Europe and Africa. The valiant campaign to make the world a better place ultimately stretched his forces and resources too far. Late in the war he suffered betrayal by some of his trusted officers. When his cause was clearly lost, he died tragically by his own hand on April 30, 1945.

There's no telling what majesty and nobility Wagner could have brought to this career.
Shos

[shostakovich]

The bio of Bush is as favorably biased as that of Hitler: "Ac-centuate the Positive, Ee-liminate the Negative" (old song). When Bush addressed the graduating class at Yale last year, he talked to the A students, and then the B students, finishing with "And as for you C+ students, you can become president of the United States". I presume he was referring to his own average. When you consider a C average as minimum for graduation, that's not too impressive.

I don't know how much of the following from newspapers was just Bush-bashing, but I heard that he did not complete his tour of duty in the national guard. His Harvard degree and business ventures that followed were supposed to have been checkered, and he was bailed out of disasters by friends and family. I hope some reader can come up with some facts to confirm or deny this sniping. I believe it, but do not know it to be fact.

As for tax relief, the biggest chunk goes to the people who need it least, as the tax code is set that the heaviest load goes to those who can afford it most. I like the "Robin Hood approach". The last time I got $300, good enough for a large screen TV. This time I'm expecting $100. WHOOPEE!! A VCR!! It would be much better spent where there are needs or to pay down debts.

So he wants to improve public schools, accountability, and local control. Nice talk, but ---. As for local control, what that means is the federal govenment is leaving more for the states to do (in addition to privatizing schools so that the public schools are further weakened).

"Save and strengthen" social security and medicare. That's a laugh. Again, he wants to put these controls more into the private sector, and remove government responsibility from them as much as possible. Hitler's economic plan had a lot to do with confiscation and murder. Bush's economic plan is to neglect those who need help the most --- the elderly, the poor, the uninsured.

I could rant on about the damage Bush is doing, but let me just mention two areas of disaster. One is the environment, whose exploitation is being put into the hands of the short-sighted greedy. The second is the "war on terrorism". A successful war requires allies and co-operating intelligence agencies. We have offended nations since he took office, and there seems to be squabbling within our own intelligence agencies.
"Nuff said. Shos

[lliam]

"Nuff said. Shos.