Israel/Palestine et al... Who's Right?

[Shapley]

Shos,

Al Queda and whatever other banner the insurgents in Iraq are gathered under, have never met to negotiate a 'cease fire'. Hezbollah does have a negotiating committee of sorts, so it is possible to negotiate a 'cease fire' with them.

It is my understanding that President Bush and Secretary Rice are biding there time on calling for a 'cease fire' until Israel has gained a foothold in Lebanon, and the Hezbollah forces have sufferred sufficient losses to make such a 'cease fire' desirable on their part. It has already been stated that we cannot return to the status quo there, because it allows Hezbollah to continue amassing arms at the Isreali border. Israel wants to push the border northward, which will give them a bargaining chip in future negotiations. Also, the U.N. has to be removed as the peacekeeping authority, since their ability to fulfil this role has been inadequate.

V/R
Shapley

[Haggis@wk]

Shapley,
The article doesn't seem to point out that UNIFL was unarmed and never had any opportunity to assert any authority in the area. There is also reliable evidence that UNIFL actively helped Hiz kidnap/murder Israeli troops.

That's the main reason Israel doesn't want any more "neutral" unarmed UN forces in the region after this particular war is finished.

[Shapley]

Haggis,

Thanks. Also, welcome back to the board, we've missed your input.

V/R
Shapley

[dai bread]

Shapley,
The article doesn't seem to point out that UNIFL was unarmed and never had any opportunity to assert any authority in the area. There is also reliable evidence that UNIFL actively helped Hiz kidnap/murder Israeli troops.

That's the main reason Israel doesn't want any more "neutral" unarmed UN forces in the region after this particular war is finished.

What idiot sent unarmed troops into that place?

[Haggis@wk]

Dai,

The UN is totally bereft of any moral or actual authority and has been for a long time. The recent oil for food and food for sex scandals demonstrate that. The only way Hezbollah would allow UN troops to occupy the “neutral” buffer in Lebanon was if they were unarmed, which ensured that the force would be ineffective. Then the UNFIL troops actively assisted Hezbollah in raids and even assisted in the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier who was later killed.

The Israelis have very little use for a world body that approved a resolution in the 70’s equating Zionism with racism.

Other than the Korean War, a UN operation led by the U.S., I can’t think of one success the UN has ever had, and even the Korean War was a tie.

If any candidate for president had a plank in her/his platform that called for immediate withdrawal of the US from the UN that person would be a shoo-in. Most Americans have been fed up with the UN for decades.

[Shapley]

Haggis,

Agreed. It is interesting, in fact, that the newly formed U.N. Human Rights Council, which replaces the defunct Human Rights Commission, has decided to make Israel its' primary focus, having voted to make a review of Israels 'human rights abuses' a regular part of every meeting. Apparently they were unable to find abuses in places like Darfur, or China, so all of their attention thus far has gone into the study of Israel.

As the Weekly Standard points out, we can expect no more from an organization that puts ruthless dictatorships on the same level with democracies.

V/R
Shapley

[bignaf]

I'm sure none of you missed the big noisy colorful reports of 56 people dead in Qana. but most of you probably didn't notice the "uh... actually we found only 27 bodies" little notice in some back page. :puke: media! :puke:
now 27 deaths of civilians are just as horrible, but who really caused them? and who did something to avoid them? (hint: the first answer rhymes with bizzbullah, and the second answer rhymes with jizrael).

[bignaf]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1154525792640&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
analysis of the media coverage

[GreatCarouser]

More on the above from the Wiesenthal Center:

Belgian atrocities

and then:


Press bias

Regardless of your feelings about the crisis between Israel and the Palestinians and Arab neighbors, even if you believe there is more culpability on Israel's part for whatever reason, the following two sentences really say it all:
If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.

[bignaf]

did you invent that quote?!!?!

[GreatCarouser]

did you invent that quote?!!?!

I wish...to quote Mark Twain again..."Adam was the only man who, when he said a good thing, knew that nobody had said it before him." The paragraph was e-mailed to me and was obviously forwarded from somewhere else but it was unattributed. Maybe I'll Google it and see if I can find 'who done it'...

I find a number of instances on the net....none I checked physically attribute it....maybe our old friend Anon?

[Haggis@wk]

Victor Davis Hanson

” These past few days the inability of millions of Westerners, both here and in Europe, to condemn fascist terrorists who start wars, spread racial hatred, and despise Western democracies is the real story, not the “quarter-ton” Israeli bombs that inadvertently hit civilians in Lebanon who live among rocket launchers that send missiles into Israeli cities and suburbs.

Yes, perhaps Israel should have hit more quickly, harder, and on the ground; yes, it has run an inept public relations campaign; yes, to these criticisms and more. But what is lost sight of is the central moral issue of our times: a humane democracy mired in an asymmetrical war is trying to protect itself against terrorists from the 7th century, while under the scrutiny of a corrupt world that needs oil, is largely anti-Semitic and deathly afraid of Islamic terrorists, and finds psychic enjoyment in seeing successful Western societies under duress.

In short, if we wish to learn what was going on in Europe in 1938, just look around.”

[bignaf]

I'm tired of people misusing the word "Fascist."

[GreatCarouser]

This is an op-ed piece from the Khaleej Times In Dubai I think.... I found it interesting perusing the 'News in Pictures' link. Then I also found this article

[shostakovich]

Hey, GC, that was a dynamite quote: catchy, brief, and accurate.

[dai bread]

Granted the faults of the UN are many, and are directly connected with the power-hungry nature of the dictatorships that control most of its members.

Nevertheless, many of us don't have the luxury of being able to walk away from the place. Diplomatic alliances shift, and attitudes change. Haile Selassie of Ethiopia was a hero in the 1950s. Now he's just another money-grubbing dictator with a Swiss bank account. China was a non-country just a generation ago. Now look at it.

I can understand American distaste for the UN. For years after its founding, it was a hotbed of anti-American diatribe. The Americans got worse than the British, even though they weren't a colonial power. But we need an international forum, with American participation. If not the UN, then something like it. Otherwise there won't be any control on anybody, not even the tenuous influence the UN has.

How to go about cleaning up the UN? Maybe it should develop a judicial arm so that it becomes a 3-legged stool like the US. That's not perfect either.

[Shapley]

That's why we sent Bolton there, and he's doing a bang-up job of it. That's also why the Democrats don't want to keep him there...

[dai bread]

That's why we sent Bolton there, and he's doing a bang-up job of it. That's also why the Democrats don't want to keep him there...

I await developments with considerable interest.

[bignaf]

what does "bang-up" mean?

[Shapley]

'bang-up' means 'good'.