The Unnecessary War

[jamiebk]

New Report: Iraq Has Met 15 of 18 Benchmarks.

Excellent...so maybe we can leave now

[Shapley]

What's the hurry? Just when things start getting hospitabal, and you're wanting to rush off....

[Haggis@wk]

Did you know that the US and Iraq will shortly conclude “one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror”? You wouldn’t if you read American newspapers or watched American television. The Times of London reports on the approaching end of al-Qaeda in Iraq as the forces of Nouri al-Maliki and the US close the trap on 1,200 AQ terrorists in Mosul:

After being forced from its strongholds in the west and centre of Iraq in the past two years, Al-Qaeda’s dwindling band of fighters has made a defiant “last stand” in the northern city of Mosul.
A huge operation to crush the 1,200 fighters who remained from a terrorist force once estimated at more than 12,000 began on May 10.

Operation Lion’s Roar, in which the Iraqi army combined forces with the Americans’ 3rd Armoured Cavalry Regiment, has already resulted in the death of Abu Khalaf, the Al-Qaeda leader, and the capture of more than 1,000 suspects.

How significant will victory in Mosul be? The American commander in the region, Gen. Mark Hertling, calls it “the irreversible point”. It will deprive AQ of an urban base and put them at the mercy of tribal leaders in the countryside. For the terrorists, that means certain death — which will likely force them to find a way out of Iraq without further incident.

Maliki has declared that the terrorist siege of Baghdad and Iraq has collapsed. He blamed unnamed foreign nations for funding the terrorist wave against his nation, and hailed the new Iraqi Army for its tenacity against the radicals of all stripes. While he kept his praise to the Iraqis, the unspoken truth is that the IA could never have survived it without the Bush administration’s shift in strategy and tactics in January 2007, and without George Bush’s tenacity in insisting that we stay and finish the job in Iraq.

And what have we won? AQ has sustained an unmitigated defeat in Iraq. They have lost tens of thousands of recruits and fighters, men that would have otherwise volunteered for other missions in which they didn’t have to face the American military. They have lost their supposedly divine endorsement; why would Allah have called them to action, just to see them destroyed by the infidels?
The Times of London has this right: the victory in Mosul gives the West the most spectacular victory of the war. Too bad the American media missed it.

[jamiebk]

so where's Bin Laden?

[OperaTenor]

so where's Bin Laden?

Jamie, stop it with the niggling, inconvenient details, will ya?

Besides, as long as he draws free air, we can can keep justifying perpetual war.

[dai bread]

OBL is in a luxurious house in Saudi Arabia.

[Haggis@wk]

so where's Bin Laden?

Jamie, stop it with the niggling, inconvenient details, will ya?

Besides, as long as he draws free air, we can can keep justifying perpetual war.

You are the ones who told me he had nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

[jamiebk]

Yeah, well, we've heard the "MIssion Accomplished" speech before too. If AQ is on it's last legs then there would seem to be no reason not to begin an orderly withdrawal.

[OperaTenor]

so where's Bin Laden?

Jamie, stop it with the niggling, inconvenient details, will ya?

Besides, as long as he draws free air, we can can keep justifying perpetual war.

You are the ones who told me he had nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

Yup. He still hasn't turned up in Iraq, and even fewer people seem to care where he is.

So, how are things in Afghanistan these days?

[Shapley]

[quote="OperaTenor]So, how are things in Afghanistan these days?[/quote]

According to Defenselink, not too badly, considering the state of affairs before we went in.

• The Afghanistan constitution, signed into law in 2004, includes provisions to protect individual rights, particularly for women.

• In the 2004 presidential election, more than 8 million Afghans voted, and 41 percent were women. In the 2005 parliamentary election, more than 50 percent of eligible voters cast a ballot.

• The Afghanistan constitution, signed into law in 2004, includes provisions to protect individual rights, particularly for women.

• In the 2004 presidential election, more than 8 million Afghans voted, and 41 percent were women. In the 2005 parliamentary election, more than 50 percent of eligible voters cast a ballot.

• Women hold 68 of 188 seats in the lower house of parliament.

• Approximately 50,000 domestic election observers were trained for the 2005 parliamentary election.

• At least 40 judicial centers have been built or rehabilitated, and almost 600 judges trained.

• There are now 32 independent radio stations that reach 60 percent of the population.

• At least 4.7 million refugees have returned to Afghanistan.

At least 5 million students are enrolled, a 500 percent increase since 2001. Of these, 40 percent are women and girls.

• More than 50,000 teachers have been trained. At least 65,000 teachers regularly listen to a radio teaching program that airs daily.

• More than 500 schools, which serve 400,000 students, have been built. All are repaired with local materials and expertise—and are earthquake-resistant.

• The United States helped create an Afghanistan Primary Education Program to make up for lost schooling years under the Taliban. At its peak, 170,000 students attended daily, 58 percent of whom were women.

• The United States has helped print more than 48 million textbooks and distribute more than 42 million textbooks.

• At least 80 percent of the population has access to at least basic health care.

• More than 500 health clinics have been built and serve 340,000 patients per month. These clinics reach approximately 7.4 million citizens.

• For rural areas, at least 2,000 community health workers have been trained, and they treat an additional 150,000 people per month.

• Since 2004, full immunization for children 1–2 years of age has increased 150 percent, to 37 percent of the population. The United States has helped vaccinate at least 5 million children.

• The United States has treated 700,000 cases of malaria.

• To combat childhood polio, the United Nations Children’s Fund and the World Health Organization provided vaccinations of 9.9 million children.

• The Afghanistan economy was valued at $2.4 billion in 2002. The number for 2006 is $7.3 billion, and projected to rise to $8.8 billion next year.

• Per capita income has doubled since 2001.

• The government of Afghanistan collected more than $177 million in revenue in 2002–2003, and $300 million in 2004–2005, an increase of 70 percent. President Karzai estimates the revenue for 2005–2006 will be $500 million.

• More than 3 million land deeds and more than 55,000 businesses have been registered since 2001. At least 85 percent of all property deeds have been restored or reorganized, decreasing land-ownership disputes.

• There is now a Central Bank with 32 computerized provincial branches. The Central Bank has $2 billion in foreign reserves.

• More than 10,000 kilometers of road have been built or improved since the Taliban fell. And at least 3,000 kilometers more are under construction.

• The average speed on most roads has increased 300 percent.

• The completion of the Kabul-Kandahar highway improved transportation for 30 percent of country, and reduced travel times for those two cities from 15 hours to 6 hours.

• The U.S. portion of the Kandahar-Herat highway has reduced travel time between those two major cities from 10 hours to 4.3 hours.

• Rehabilitation of the Kajaki Dam and surrounding transmission lines will bring power to 1.7 million Afghans in a critical security area.

• According to the World Bank, Afghanistan ranks near the top of all nations in ease of starting a business.

• Coca-Cola opened a $25 million bottling plant in Kabul, which employs approximately 500 Afghans.

• Ford, 3M, and Boeing are examining business opportunities in Afghanistan.

• Wherever the infrastructure and security situation is improved, what little support there is for the Taliban continues to decline.

• Numerous structural-improvement projects are ongoing, and many others are planned and have funding committed for them.

• There have been more than 28,000 micro-loans given out for agricultural activities.

• At least 140 farm markets have been constructed.

• Agricultural programs to increase farming efficiency now extend to more than 1 million farmers.

• At least 2.5 million Afghans have benefited from irrigation and road projects linking farms to market.

• Irrigation rehabilitation has improved water supplies for more than 1 million acres—approximately 10 percent of nationwide farmland.

• More than 210 irrigation structures have been built and nearly 4,500 kilometers of canals cleaned.

• Since 2004, there has been a 40 percent increase in cereal production, and a 46 percent increase in wheat production.

• Almost 4,000 acres of fruit and nut orchards have been planted in the eastern region.

• More than 19,000 women have been trained in improved poultry management..

• At least 14 million head of cattle have been vaccinated or treated.

• For every $1 USAID has invested in agriculture, there has been an $11 return.

• Only 8 percent of the population makes its living from the opium trade.

• Afghanistan is no longer an open sanctuary for al-Qaeda.

• The Afghan National Army (ANA) currently has more than 30,000 trained and equipped troops; the Afghan National Police has more than 46,000 trained and equipped forces. Approximately 4,000 Afghan security forces are still in training.

• The ANA is growing at a rate of approximately 1,000 a month, and the force may increase to 70,000.

• The ANA has successfully conducted independent combat operations and continues to improve its combat capabilities.

• The ANA is composed of five corps and ten brigades. It is an infantry-centric force focused on counterinsurgency capability.

• After the Taliban fell, the private militias of tribal chief and “warlords” were placed under the control of the Ministry of Defense—then disarmed and demobilized.

• There are 21,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan; there were less than 10,000 in 2002; and approximately 13,000 in 2003; and similar numbers to present in 2004 and 2005.

• There are 40 nations with troops on the ground in Afghanistan, and approximately 40,000 international troops in country.

• For the first time in its history, NATO forces are deployed beyond their traditional European borders.

• NATO’s command in Afghanistan—the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)—expanded in July to cover Afghanistan’s southern provinces.

• The Operation Enduring Freedom Coalition transferred authority for all security operations to NATO/ISAF on Oct. 5. This will improve command and control and coordination within Afghanistan.

• There are 24 Provisional Reconstruction Teams (PRTs) controlled by NATO operating throughout the nation. These entities, a mixture of military and civilians, are involved in infrastructure improvement.

[jamiebk]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25562115/ And the bombs continue to explode....

[Shapley]

That could have something to do with the fact that there is a war there. It could also have to do with the fact that Pakistani-backed militants don't want India having peaceful relations with Afghanistan, and the Afghani government is working to build that relationship. IOW, it is a poltical struggle. Indian offices have been targeted continuously since the fall of the Taliban, and will continue to be targeted.

[OperaTenor]

Considering the difference in might and resources between the US and the Taliban, one would think it should have been a slam-dunk to end the fighting there in less than seven years, especially compared to past blockbusters like WWII, WWI, etc.

Of course, we would have to want to end the fighting.....

None so blind....

[Shapley]

WWII and WWI were fought against uniformed forces, with a recognized national leader and, more or less, adherance to the 'rules of war'.

Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq have been fought against non-conventional forces with no established base of operation and a willingness to abandon all conventional rules of armed conflict.

We have the power to defeat them using conventional means, but that would mean carpet-bombings and the likes, with high numbers of civilian casualties. That type of conflict wins wars but not the hearts of the people, so we opt to fight in a manner designed to minimize the risk to civilians, despite the longer timeframe required to win at such a war.

Life isn't like the movies. We can't wrap it all up in two hours.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

And we bleed resources from the fight in Afghanistan to instigate perpetual war in Iraq - don't leave that little detail out.

[barfle]

You are the ones who told me he had nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

So we're bragging about defeating an enemy that wasn't there until after we opened the door for them to enter.

Hey, Mom, I cleaned up the mess I made. Can I have a dollar?

[Shapley]

And we bleed resources from the fight in Afghanistan to instigate perpetual war in Iraq - don't leave that little detail out.

Where do you get the idea that it's 'perpetual war' in Iraq. The war was started in 2003, it's now 2008. Five years does not 'perpetual' make. In addition, the war in Iraq appears to be winding down, and we're stepping up offensive action against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Isn't that what you want?

[Shapley]

Here is the latest security report on Iraq from the Department of Defense, dated 16 June.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

The war was started in 2003, it's now 2008. Five years does not 'perpetual' make...

Oh, for pity's sake. "The" war, as if there were end points to conflict in that whole area. That lot of folk have been killing each other off since Abraham left Ur; and as for Afghanistan, those same hill tribes were shooting arrows at Alexander. They were too much for the Romans, the British, and the Russians.

"The" war. Hmmph. Nope, it's perpetual, all right.

[Haggis@wk]

You are the ones who told me he had nothing to do with the war in Iraq.

So we're bragging about defeating an enemy that wasn't there until after we opened the door for them to enter.

Hey, Mom, I cleaned up the mess I made. Can I have a dollar?

AQ is who drove planes into the WTC, AQ is who we are fighting in Iraq. They might not have been there at the beginning but they got there as soon as they could. As the article I referenced said they have been there fighting our troops instead of driving more planes into building (as if TSA could stop them)

But this really is a pointless discussion you don't think those people we are killing in Iraq are a threat to us here and I do, even more so when we have discovered that some of the people we are killing in Iraq have criminal records in the U.S. That convinces me that they've been here before and know how to get around; the same information apparent tells you something different or you don't believe it.