Is George Bush the right leader for America?

[mmichaelson]

Hehe... I'd take her Rich (just for a few days, being pre-teen and all)

Seriously though, I have this strange love for children. . .I was not able to make myself be a teacher because I prefer to play with them and teachers have to <ahem> teach and all.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by Serenity:
Wait! Don't go! I was going to ask you what you like about the Republican party....

The hats and the noisemakers!

<small>[ 09-10-2004, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Selma in San Diego ]</small>

[mmichaelson]

HA! Didn't you get an interesting shirt Selma??
(not that it was republican per se, but an interesting shirt a while back???)

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Selma in San Diego:

Originally posted by Serenity:
[b]Wait! Don't go! I was going to ask you what you like about the Republican party....

The hats and the noisemakers! [/b]

Aren't the noisemakers also known as the "key speakers"?!!

[piqaboo]

And Selma scores again!

Re NO child left behind -
as reported to me by several teachers, it involves trying to get all the kids to be above average. While school admins and english teachers seem to be able to buy into this idea, the math teachers are boggled speachless. This is where I find the whole program poorly conceived- part 1.

Average: the sum of all results divided by the total number of results used to calculate the sum.

By definition, some kids/schools must score below average.

When a school scores below average, that school loses funding, which probably makes it hard for them to send teachers for training in order to improve their results/abilities. Failure of program part 2. Makes more sense to evaluate areas of school performance and send folks to prescribed training instead.

Nicole Marie: "&*^%" was too funny!

Haggis: always love your thoughtfulness, clarity and research, even when I disagree, so there :p :p

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Saxy: re a few items -

Prayer in schools. Are you comfortable with your Christian child participating in Buddhist, Shinto, Muslim, animist, and pagan prayer? Or are you just comfortable with the Buddhist, Shinto, Muslim, animist, pagan, etc. children praying like a local-flavor protestent Christian? Equal means equal; it's all or none.

Pro-life. Again, there are many flavors. Are you anti-late-abortion, anti-abortion, anti-contraception, or everyone-needs-to-have-eleven-kids in opinion?

Guns. I don't favor the availability of, say, assault rifles or grenade launchers. I'd like to require more in the way of gun safety classes and range qualification before purchase.

I'm not interested in other peoples' marriages. Let the other adults do what suits them; as long as any children are provided for the essential condition of "marriage" has been met.

Everyone wants a strong military; but too many politicians want it for free. Same with health care, social programs, education, and so forth. We could use some ideas, real choices, and honest bookkeeping here.

[Marye]

Haggis,

I find your comments toward Nicole Marie in your earlier post rather unkind and certainly unworthy of your usual fine timber. I think of you as a thoughtful, informative AND balanced writer - I guess I was wrong.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Saxy Buff:
That is me! I think every child deserves a chance at life and a home. . .
and am willing to follow that up if needs be!

Just to be clear, Altoid's just fine at home with us...

[haggis]

Nicole, Mary and by extension everyone,

By way of explaination rather than mitigation.

Late hours, Scotch and pique rob me of my objectivity sometime.

Abject apologies to all but especially Nicole.

(Ed. "Sigh, So, we gonna borrow the hair shirt from Shos again?"

I guess.....)

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Saxy Buff:
HA! There are so many things to say. . .

-I'm very pro-life
-I'm not particularly pro-homosexual marriage
-I'm pro-capital punishment, for the most part
-I'm VERY for a strong military
-I'm pro-the right to carry weapons
-I'm for prayer in schools

Not a true republican, but you can see earlier posts for that. I just usually swing closer to their ideas on most issues. . .

Is that enough, or should I go on Serenity?

Thanks Saxy, just wanted to know why you identify with the Republican Party. I don't believe the government should be involved in any of the issues you bring up, except having a strong military, because all of your topics are personal.

I'll have to go digging for what characterizes each political party. I think I have lost track of their basic principles.

Still, I know I want less government in my daily life.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Haggis:
Late hours, Scotch and pique rob me of my objectivity sometime.

My wife had nuthin' to do with that! She was right here, the whole time!

:p

[Serenity]

If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
...George W. Bush
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
...Governor George W. Bush

"Welcome to Mrs. Bush, and my fellow astronauts."
...Governor George W. Bush

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit...Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."
...Governor George W. Bush, 8/11/94

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
...Governor George W. Bush, 9/15/95

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy -- but that could change."
...Governor George W. Bush, 5/22/98

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
...Governor George W. Bush, 12/6/93

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."
...Governor George W. Bush, 11/30/96

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
...Governor George W. Bush

"The future will be better tomorrow."
...Governor George W. Bush

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
...Governor George W. Bush 9/21/97

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."
...Governor George W. Bush

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
...Governor George W. Bush to Sam Donaldson, 8/17/93

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
...Governor George W. Bush

"Public speaking is very easy."
...Governor George W. Bush to reporters

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican"
...Governor George W. Bush

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
...Governor George W. Bush

"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in LA, my answer has been direct & simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame."
...George W. Bush

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."
...Governor George W. Bush 5/20/96

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
...Governor George W. Bush 9/22/97

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
...Governor George W. Bush, 9/5/93

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
...Governor George W. Bush , 9/18/95

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that George Bush may or may not make."
...Governor George W. Bush

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."
...Governor George W. Bush

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
...Governor George W. Bush

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
...Governor George W. Bush

[OperaTenor]

This might be a good time to bring a couple of things up:

First, I feel everyone who posts here in this forum, especially the regulars, wants nothing more than to make our country the best it can be, and are extremely passionate about our diverse views. <OT says, looking at Haggis with arched eyebrows, with pique and Piq.> I feel priveledged to join in these discussions, and have certainly learned a lot from all of you folks(some of it even useful knowledge!).

Second, I remembered this list from another thread - thought it might be a good reminder:

"We believe manners are more important than shrill, rhetorical one-upsmanship.

We believe that grammar is not trivial and spelling DOES count.

We believe its better to be a citizen of a democracy than a commissar anywhere else.

We believe that reasoned discourse can affect one’s beliefs.

We believe that courtesy should be cherish and taught to our children.

We believe that true values are constant.

We believe that the U.S. Constitution is the most important secular document in the history of the Earth.

We believe that mankind can aspire to greatness.

We believe that friendships and respect can be earned through our communications.

And,
To quote Batman,

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/batman.jpg" alt=" - " />

We believe that kindness is often wiser than candor.

We believe that "useless" research usually isn't.

We believe that maintenance is better than repair."


<small>[ 10-20-2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[shostakovich]

Hi Serenity. It appears the Bush speech-writers now are way better than those during his governorship. Thanks for the list.

Hi OT. I don't recall the quoted credo, but it's a good one. Please send a copy to the Bush speech-writers. It might rub off on W. Whether he's in D.C. or Crawford, he'd be a better man for it.
Shos

[piqaboo]

I hope it was good Scotch. :p

[barfle]

Originally posted by Saxy Buff:
HA! There are so many things to say. . .

-I'm very pro-life
-I'm not particularly pro-homosexual marriage
-I'm pro-capital punishment, for the most part
-I'm VERY for a strong military
-I'm pro-the right to carry weapons
-I'm for prayer in schools

Not a true republican, but you can see earlier posts for that. I just usually swing closer to their ideas on most issues. . .

Is that enough, or should I go on Serenity?

I think life is a good thing, too. But I'm not ready to tell other people how to live theirs.

I really don't care what the gender make up is of any group that decides to call themselves a family, pay joint taxes, and stop having sex (with respects to Bill Maher).

I used to be ambivalent about capital punishment, feeling that it didn't do much good but didn't do much harm, either. That was before I lost my faith in the legal system, where an innocent man may be executed in spite of evidence exhonorating him, simply because the trial was performed all nice and "legal."

I'm for a strong military, but I'm against the reasons it's necessary these days.

I'm also for the right to carry weapons. I firmly believe that airline hijackings would be nonexistent if normal, freedom-loving citizens had arms on airplanes. Now that doesn't mean I think people have the right to shoot at anything that moves or doesn't. All actions have consequences, and those MUST be made known and enforced.

Praying in schools will exist as long as exams do. However, the idea of a set-aside time for an organized prayer is contrary to the idea of "freedom of religion."

[barfle]

Selma, you're starting to sound like a libertarian!

[RC]

Praying in schools will exist as long as exams do. However, the idea of a set-aside time for an organized prayer is contrary to the idea of "freedom of religion."

Besides the fact that its contrary to the idea of what a public education is supposed to be. Reading, wRiting, and aRithmetic. The more crap we add to the fundametals, the less effective we are at teaching the fundamentals.

It infringes on the right of a parent to be a parent, and a church/synagogue/temple to be a church/synagogue/temple.

[mmichaelson]

Just to clarify:
No, I would not be comfortable with my children participating in prayers that do not belong with "my religion". I would be comfortable with a quiet time where students can choose to pray as they wish. That is my definition of prayer in schools. Allow time for students to reflect or to pray as they wish. . .to each their own. That would be equal, with no special consideration being given to any religion and no one feeling particularly left out. . .

[mmichaelson]

Also to clarify earlier statements made by myself:
Selma:
I DO NOT advocate assault weapons, like yourself. But I do believe in the rights of everyday citizens to carry weapons as they choose as long as they meet stringent safety checks and are made to take multiple safety courses. . .

I've said earlier that I am against abortion in any shape way or form except in the most of extreme cases (the mother's life). This is a very touchy subject for me. . .it's biblical and that's that for me. I won't be all Bible belt quoting (for your sake Lliam), but that's an issue that I don't budget about for myself.

I am against gay marriage from a moral standpoint(that whole biblical thing again), but I also realize that in our great country we do advocate separation of church and state, and by following those laws, marriage should be legalized, regardless of sex. I do make a point of persecuting people for what they believe, so I think the marriage should be legalized, even though I don't agree with it.

Now I did state that I'm sort of shaky on the whole death-penalty thing, and that stands. I worry about the implications of people charged with murder where there isn't a lot of true evidence, just circumstantial. In our system, the people on trial are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent, which seems to be the norm nowdays. I have trouble having faith in our justice system, where rapists and child molesters go free while wrongly convicted murderers languish in prison or on death row. . .Ok. I will stop rambling my own insecurities about this topic. . .

Those are my clarifications. . .I hope those help, Serenity and Selma, and answer some questions.