Is George Bush the right leader for America?

[Shapley]

GC,

RE: Garrison Keiller.

He closes his rant with this tidbit: This is a great country, and it wasn’t made so by angry people.

True, perhaps, but he sounds angrier than any Republican I've spoken with. He has made a comfortable living spinning tall tales at taxpayer expense. Tell me, why should I take him seriously now?

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

Hi RC,

KOGO is the local right-wing lunatic fringe AM station here. Rush, Dr. Laura, and George Nory, all from one radio station.

Talk about scary.



<small>[ 09-14-2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[RC]

True, perhaps, but he sounds angrier than any Republican I've spoken with. He has made a comfortable living spinning tall tales at taxpayer expense. Tell me, why should I take him seriously now?

How so?

[RC]

OT, you're a brave soul.

[RC]

True, perhaps, but he sounds angrier than any Republican I've spoken with. He has made a comfortable living spinning tall tales at taxpayer expense. Tell me, why should I take him seriously now?

Ha ha ha...speaking of angry republicans...Rush Limbaugh. tee hee.

Also, curious to know if you actually spoke with Garrison Keiller. Why would you take him any more seriously than you would anyone, (including myself)?
Its a matter of making an effort to listen to things you THINK you might not agree with and still being able to hear whats being said.

<small>[ 09-14-2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: RC ]</small>

[Shapley]

RC:

Garrison Keillor's radios show Lake Wobegon Days was aired on PBS. He made lots of money selling books based on the show, with the taxpayers, via his publicly broadcast program, footing the bill for advertising.

When Republican's suggested ending funding for PBS (the welfare of the airwaves, it was called), Mr. Keillor was one of the loudest opponents. Apparently afraid his listeners wouldn't tune in if they had to pay (via advertising) to hear him. Apparenlty he doesn't have much confidence in the devotion of his followers.

He has been a true-blue Republican-basher ever since.

V/R
Shapley

[Shapley]

RC:

Mr. Keillor Says:

The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong’s moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt’s evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No.1 reason the rest of the world thinks we’re deaf, dumb and dangerous.

That's why I say he sounds pretty angry. I've not listened to Rush in years. If he sounds like that, I'm glad I don't.

V/R
Shapley

[RC]

Shapley,
Thanks. I did not know that.
I love his program. I did catch his jabs at the party from time to time. I'd never actually heard him get political til now.

[RC]

I don't disagree that he sounds angry.

Rush has ALWAYS sounded like that. In fact, I do believe Keiller is taking a jab at Limbaugh in his rant.

So what quantitates a writer, journalist, talkshow host etc...as foolhardy vs. reasoned?

I've seen/heard/read lots of people who are praised for their research, mutlitude of facts and figures, even toned debate, that just know how to pull the wool over your eyes if you're a willing victim.

There are other people who sound like raving lunatics that simply speak the truth passionately.
Can you tell the difference?

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by RC:
OT, you're a brave soul.

All in knowing one's opponents.

[barfle]

Originally posted by Shapley:
RC:

Mr. Keillor Says:

The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of...Lamborghini libertarians...

Lamborghini libertarians? How does that match up with Ferrari fascists and DeSoto democrats?

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Barfle, can I have a ride in the Lamborghini?

[Shapley]

RC,

RE: Can you tell the difference?

Didn't Pontius Pilate ask this of his wife in The Passion of the Christ?

No, I don't think I always can. I have a general idea of what I think are basic truths in all areas, including politics and government. (The Constitution is the basis for all truths in government, if they don't square with that, they will fail the test.) I have a basic understanding of economics. I have to run what I hear through the filters of basic truths. If they pass the test, then they can either be accepted as legitimate opinion, or can be added to the library of truths. I may not always be correct in these interpretations, and I have had more than one basic truth disproved over the course of my life, but I think I'm batting over .500.

Some basic truths that I accept:

I accept that no person (even unborn) should be deprived of life without due process of law. This means that I can oppose abortion as practiced and support the death penalty without having a moral conflict.

I accept that second amendment has more to do with our ability to arm against enemies to our Constitutional government, even if those enemies hide behind it, than it has to do with hunting. Therefore, I believe that it is necessary for responsible citizens to be able own more than hunting rifles and shotguns.

I accept that we sometimes have to go to war, and that the decision to do so is seldom done by popular concensus. I believe the best way to ensure peace is by being prepared for war.

I accept that there are honest differences of opinion on issues, and I'm willing to hear the other side if the other side is willing to hear me. I enjoy spirited discussion, but I don't like being preached to.

I accept that, if 5.6 percent employment was a sign of prosperity in 1995, it is a sign of prosperity in 2004.

I accept that, if John Kerry does not act to prevent outsourcing in the corporations he holds stock in, he probably won't be effective in stopping it in the businesses he doesn't.

I accept that outsourcing probably isn't that big of a deal, anyway.

I accept that taxes can be lowered without lowering the standard of living of anyone but the tax collectors.

I accept that you can't give tax breaks to people that don't pay taxes.

I accept that higher taxes tax the economy.

I accept that spending more on education does not improve education.

I accept that smaller schools do a better job than the large student warehouses of today.

I accept that unionized teachers do not teach any better than non-unionized ones.

I accept that punitive damages are unjust. If they are, as the name implies, a form of punishment, then they are the responsibility of criminal, not civil, courts.

I accept that freedom of expression includes the right to express hatred, but not to act on it.

I accept that action and speech are different entities.

I accept that, if John Kerry commited attrocities during the war, as he said he did, then he is unfit to be president of the United States.

I accept that, if John Kerry didn't commit attrocities during the war, as he said he did, then he lied to Congress and is unfit to be the president of the United States.

I accept that George W. Bush did not mislead us into the war in Iraq, and that the war was and is justified.

I accept that we will win the war in Iraq if we stay committed to the cause.

I accept that George W. Bush is committed to the cause.

V/R
Shapley

<small>[ 09-15-2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>

[Shapley]

Barfle,

RE:Lamborghini libertarians? How does that match up with Ferrari fascists and DeSoto democrats.

I think it is a play on "Limousine Liberals".

V/R

Shapley

[piqaboo]

I think Garrison Keillor is funny, but I also tink he is a whiner.

[RC]

Shapley,

Very well spoken.

Rush Limbaugh may tell a truth and to me it sounds like ranting.

I may offer an opinion or pose a question and to you it may sound like preaching. If I made you feel that way, please accept my apologies.

You and I are not completely devoid of common ground. However, I seldom accept the label of "truth" (especially in politics) and I'm comfortable with that.

I accept that I have preconcieved notions so I question.

I accept that my knowledge is insufficient so I learn (or try anyway).

I accept that I'm pig headed and occassionally socially retarded Probably not going to change much.

[Shapley]

RC,

I believe we, and pretty well everyone else on the B.comBB, have spirited discussions, which I enjoy. Why else would I be here? There are a few that get preachy, including, probably, myself, but you can just skim past the preachy posts (you gotta love technology!).

I enjoy nearly all the posts here on the BB. That's why I keep coming back (probably to the dismay of some!).

V/R
Shapley

[Marye]

I accept that George W. Bush SHOULD BE committed

:p

[barfle]

Preach? Me?

To Shapley:

I tend to believe that it would be a very rare individual who would want to be President of the United States of America simply because he wanted to serve.

I tend to believe that The United States is a great country in spite of the politicians we've elected since I've been paying attention (JFK to date).

I tend to believe that the government that governs least governs best.

I tend to believe that the "due process of law" can be woefully inadequate when a person's life is on the line.

I tend to believe that a human being has been born that way.

But we agree on many, many other points. Certainly not on whether or not we were misled about our invasion of Iraq, but certainly on many points.

[Nicole Marie]

Me too Marye.

I listen to Rush and I'm amazed at how Rush has changed his tune a bit. Not that he's jumped ship but after the deal with his prescription drugs, Title III of the Patriot Act and Reagan's Money Laundering Control Act of 1986 were used against him to look into his medical and finacial records and the ACLU of Florida defending him... well he changed his tune for awhile there.

http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=14698&c=27