Beheading!

[piqaboo]

Thanks for the info on the headscarf ban. At least its not one more f***up on our watch.

I have "other" issues with France's law (none of which are related to the war in Iraq), and this just adds to it.

There's a case pending in the US on a kid who wore an anti-homosexual tshirt to school. I dont know why his tshirt is not ok, but one that says LAGA (lesbian and Gay Alliance), or has lyrics from "Okie from Muskokee" would be ok. Perhaps just better to ban all "message" tshirts?

<small>[ 09-24-2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>

[haggis]

"Perhaps just better to ban all "message" tshirts?
"

No, or else the QDBFH's "Life's a Bitch and so am I" shirt would have to become a dust rag.

The greatest thing here that EVERYONE accepts but few mention (including Nicole) is that we are a country where the rule of law is paramount.

Its not always immediate, its frequently messy and it’s not always apparent, but we, as a country, generally get it right.

I know Nicole’s still pissed that Ashcroft hasn’t arrested her yet for sedition, but hey, sometimes living in a truly free country means sacrifices!!!

[piqaboo]

I was insufficiently specific.

The kid brought the case against the school when the school suspended him for wearing the anti-homosexual t-shirt. The school should perhaps just ban all message tshirts instead of getting into the untenable position of deciding which messages are ok and which are not. They are going to lose this case, I hope. Even tho I dont agree with the kid.

[The Great Carouser]

The following article is by retired Lt. General of the Army William Odom, an acknowledged expert in Asian and Middle Eastern security matters. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader or another .pdf reader to read the link. The second link give autobiographical info on Odom as well as links to other works by him.

Retreating in Good Order

General Odom

I close with a quote from the article to gauge interest:

"Four of Osama bin Laden’s interests
have also been served. First, he has long
been dedicated to toppling secular Arab
leaders. Second, Iraq is now open to Al-
Qaeda as a base of operations, especially if
an Islamic regime emerges there—a likely
outcome. Third, the invasion has distracted
the United States from its campaign
against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and
northern Pakistan. Fourth, the war has
put the United States at odds with its
European allies. Beyond these adverse
consequences, we must remember the fiscal
costs of the war to the United States—
costs not shared by U.S. allies, as they
were in the Persian Gulf War in 1991."

[shostakovich]

"Depends on your definition of obscenely large salaries I guess, but the higher offered salary I've seen is $110K for senior level law enforcement types. I'm sure there might be higher salaries, I'm just not aware of them.

I'ver seen truck drivers getting $60 - 70K"
------------------------------------------------------

Hi Haggis. When the incident of 4 men burnt, dragged, and hung occurred, I heard some commentator quote salaries for such security personnel. I don't recall the number or the commentator, but it seemed to me an obscenely large amount. Maybe you can tell me the soldier salaries. I am guessing an average under 50K. Whatever the amount was, it would certainly have been orders of magnitude higher than Iraqi security pay.
My mind is made up, but I welcome being confused by facts, so lay 'em on. (Dare I say "Bring 'em on"?)
Your pal, Shos

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

I have no idea what civilian companies are offering for jobs in Iraq, Afghanistan, or similar locales. The US military are paid salary plus additional pay for combat, submarine duty, flight duty, and so forth. All pay rates are public record: there's a link at Military Pay that leads to the pay charts for the US military, for FY03, 04, and 05.

I would not describe the pay levels for the military as "obscenely high".

[barfle]

I know a guy who coordinates activities in Iraq and Afghanistan for Halliburton (yep, that Halliburton). While I don't have any dollar figures, the truck drivers who work for Halliburton in those countries (basically operating the supply lines to such delightful spots as Baghdad and Kabul) get substantially more than a truck driver would domestically.

For many, it's a way to get a sizeable chunk of cash in a year. Unfortunately for others, it's a way die in a rather grisly fashion.

[RC]

GC,
Read your link by Odom. Very interesting.

[Shapley]

GC,

RE: Second, Iraq is now open to Al-
Qaeda as a base of operations, especially if
an Islamic regime emerges there—a likely
outcome.

I'm not sure what is meant by this, since Al-Queda had camps in Iraq, albeit in the northern parts that were home to the Kurdish rebels. Chinese intelligence had reported that Osama bin Laden had fled there in the initial phases of the Afghanistan War, although those intelligence reports were questioned at the time.

I don't believe that Al-Queda will find a base of operations in Iraq if the U.S. maintains a military presence there, as is widely believed. If parts of Iraq remain under rebel control, then it is possible, but would not change the scenario from what it was before the invasion.

V/R
Shapley

[Shapley]

RE: I believe the civilians are given obscenely large salaries to induce risk taking.

I don't know by whose standards the salaries are judged to be "obscene". $110,000 seems like a lot to a beat cop in small-town Missouri or Illinois, I don't know how it stacks up against a New York city or Los Angeles veteran. But it is hardly "obscene".

Mind you, they're not looking for rookies, they want veteran officers with several years of experience and training qualifications. You have to offer them a descent salary to get them out of their comfortable environment and to convince them to live in a tent for a year while being shot at by hostile forces. Not that this is much different from being on the force back home, except for the tent. You are no more or less dead when killed by a terrorist than when killed by some kid stealing Anhydrous Ammonia for his meth lab. Veteran officers understand the risks and make their decisions based on the information. They train for a month or more before shipping over, during which the level of danger is expressed to them quite thoroughly.

Some go for the pay, some for the adventure, some for reasons of their own that you or I cannot begin to fathom. I'm sure the salary is based on valid considerations of the level of compensation required and justified for the job, just as your salary and mine are computed by those who do that for a living.

V/R
Shapley

[The Great Carouser]

Originally posted by Shapley:
GC,

RE: [b]Second, Iraq is now open to Al-
Qaeda as a base of operations, especially if
an Islamic regime emerges there—a likely
outcome.

I'm not sure what is meant by this, since Al-Queda had camps in Iraq, albeit in the northern parts that were home to the Kurdish rebels. Chinese intelligence had reported that Osama bin Laden had fled there in the initial phases of the Afghanistan War, although those intelligence reports were questioned at the time.

I don't believe that Al-Queda will find a base of operations in Iraq if the U.S. maintains a military presence there, as is widely believed. If parts of Iraq remain under rebel control, then it is possible, but would not change the scenario from what it was before the invasion.

V/R
Shapley [/b]

Shap, did you take the time to read the whole article? Let's say, for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true and there is no basis at all to this one point in General Odom's thesis. It still doesn't refute his other arguments about the soundness of the strategy we're currently pursuing in the region. The article is short (4 pages)and to the point. The author is certainly not a 'dove' in any sense of the word. Hudson Institute where I discovered this link is the same 'think tank' where the author of the article EJA linked us to recently is also a 'fellow'. Let's stop splitting hairs and look at whether the policy we're following is a 'winner' or even a potential winner.

[Shapley]

GC,

I didn't try to discredit General Odom or his argument, I just pointed out some information that seemed to contradict this point.

In the words of Al Gore: "Don't get snippy!"

V/R
Shapley

[shostakovich]

I can't swear to it, but the "oscenely large" salary was something like 30K/month. My memory is suspect, but if that was, indeed, the number I heard, it strikes me as obscene compared to military salaries.
Shos

[haggis]

In reply to my own question earlier about where were the denouncements from the Islamic community condemning the beheadings.

Islamic Society of Southern Texas

[dai bread]

There have been several similar comments, articles & letters to the editor in my local newspaper.

From day 1, I've been of the opinion that Islamists are as Muslim as the IRA is Catholic.

[shostakovich]

Good for them. Is it irony that the group is from Corpus Christi, Body of Christ?
Shos

[haggis]

Belmont Club

"It is an odd statistical fact that fewer Americans have died from terrorist attacks in Iraq than Iraqi children. The one thousand US combat deaths in the months since OIF is only slightly larger than the number of Canadians killed in the 1942 Dieppe Raid over the course of 9 hours; and not because the terrorists are eager to "show the world the justice and mercy which Islam teaches us" but because they cannot kill more.

Radical Islam is self-evidently at war with the West because their efforts are limited only by their capability. And the West is just as clearly not yet at war with radical Islam because its actions are still limited by its intent. Zarqawi sawed off Bigley's head simply because he could; America spares Fallujah from choice.

Good opinion piece about the Bigley beheading and the attitudes of the west towards radical Islam.

<small>[ 10-12-2004, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Haggis ]</small>

[dai bread]

A very good piece indeed. I thought people had learned from Black September, Bader Meinhoff and the like that negotiating with hostage takers only encourages them.

[OperaTenor]

I just read that Allawi's 75 year old cousin, his cousin's wife, and their son's wife have been kidnapped in Baghdad. The kidnappers are demanding a halt to the assault on Falluja, or they will behead the hostages.

How should/will Allawi respond to this?

<small>[ 11-10-2004, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[Shapley]

OT,

Sadly, there is only one way to respond, and that is to continue the war as planned. It is a sad fact of war that we cannot stop it to let the innocent get out of the way. Allawi's cousin and their family may have been non-participants in the war, they may have even sympathized with the insurgents for all I know, but their captors do not care. Their captors are willing to stop at nothing to win. In fact, they are willing to stop at nothing to fight even if they know they can't win.

We are fighting a non-conventional war against a non-conventional enemy. There are no uniform guidelines, no treaties of protection, no articles of war, which the enemy will recongnize or conform with. There is only hatred and death. You cannot negotiate with either.

I suspect that Allawi will continue the fight, it is not the first time he has found himself faced with death, and he has not backed down.

I offer to him and his family my prayers. He is in an unenviable position, lonely and unthankful.

V/R
Shapley