Mandatory Draft Bill

[mmichaelson]

I know Congress has been kicking this idea around for a while.. . .a mandatory period of service for men and women 18-26. I finally found a link to view the actual bill
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query
and wanted to know what everyone else knew about this. (ie: who is pushing this agenda, how likely is it to be passed, etc.)
I know several of you are far better versed in this stuff than I am. . .and wanted to know what you know. . .
Thanks!

[OperaTenor]

Hi Saxy,

Could you check the link? It's not working for me.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Saxy's link doesn't work for me either. Explorer reports "Error in at line 242 in query.c", whatever that means.

Houston, we have a problem.

[mmichaelson]

Sorry. go to the link below, and then search for Bill "HR 163" and that should get you there. . .
http://thomas.loc.gov/

[Shapley]

Saxy,

The sponsors are: Mr. RANGEL (for himself, Mr. MCDERMOTT, Mr. CONYERS, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. STARK, and Mr. ABERCROMBIE) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services

I believe they are all Democrats, I believe. The concept has been pushed around by them for awhile. I don't know where Kerry stands on the issue, but is generally opposed by Conservatives.

V/R
Shapley

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

I looked at the bill. Well, skimmed it. It looks like a reasonable adjustment of the whole National Service idea, to suit the current times and social climate.

It avoids the issue of whether we need to mandate a term of public service (defensible on a number of grounds and offensive in principle to a number of ideologies).

This could spark a lively political discussion, but we've got two of them going now! Anybody want to weigh in with a opinion?

[barfle]

I was drafted in 1967. At the time, we were engaged in another undeclared "war" that wasn't going all that well. In spite of that war, I feel the two years I was in the service was a waste of both my time and the taxpayers' money.

I'm not saying the experience was all bad, but the skills I learned involved a lot more about NOT doing what I was told and getting away with it than performing a patriotic service.

This bill says the service can be either military or civilian. I didn't get far enough into it to determine what the civilian service was, but I feel that any state that requires its citizens to spend time in its service (on top of all the taxes we pay) isn't leading by example, but by force.

And I don't think there's any doubt how I feel about that, is there?

[mmichaelson]

Barfle, the "civilian service" is listed as being determined at the discretion of the President as duties that actively have something to do with defending the country. In other words, they can decide what are and are not civilian services.
That's how I took it anways.

[mmichaelson]

BTW - I DO NOT want to be drafted in any way, shape, or form.
I feel that forcing enlistment into armed forces violates our freedom as individuals.
Side note - I know many women are in the service now and do serve in active combat, but I find it hard to believe that I could be very useful in close-quarters fighting. I can aim a gun with the best of them, but being a small woman cannot be a plus in the midst of battle.
(see 5'2" and 110lbs)

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

We do have freedoms and liberties, Saxy, but we also have duties, obligations, and necessity. We need to be as aware of our civic obligations as of our civil liberties; they must balance. I can see justice in the arguments on both sides of this issue.

You, at 5'2" and 110 lbs, are probably not infantry material. I suspect you'd make a superb supply officer, though. How many projects can you keep straight and on schedule at one time? Without logisticians, the infantry is hungry and lost, out of gas and out of ammunition.

[mmichaelson]

Selma, I'd be an excellent logistician. . .actually, the navy tried to recruit me to be a nuclear engineer on their subs. . .but I wouldn't have it.

I do see both sides of the argument. Many other countries require men to serve in their armies for a standard amount of time before they can go on with their lives. . .we've just had the luxury of not serving for so long that we take it for granted.

[OperaTenor]

The Navy wanted you to be a nuc on a SUB?!! Since when did they add ladies' rooms?

I was a nuclear mechanic on a sub. Subs are hardly coed.

[mmichaelson]

Well, they didn't say subs. . .I just assumed. (Yes, yes, I know what you get for assuming. . .but when you're 17, you have very little knowledge to go on) They wanted me to be a nuclear engineer. (funny, considering my laughable math skills)
If I wasn't as blind as a bat, I probably would have voluntarily joined the airforce with the hopes of piloting Apaches. ..but that whole blind thing (VERY near-sighted) kind of got in the way.
OT, I do not envy you your sub time. . .too enclosed for me.

[RC]

I'm agin it.

I put my bid in for sky marshal after 9/11.
Never got a call and I would have thought that I was more qualified than most. Maybe there were a lot more applicants suddenly aware of their civic duty than I thought.

There are many ways to fulfill your civic duty.

You can't force someone to care about civic duty.

I know why Rangel proposed the bill. We all know that the biggest portion of the military is served by poor folk, minority in many cases and that when the bullets fly, they are the ones on the line. I can't imagine this bill would change anything. The rich & powerful will always find the advantage.

I'm with barfle...(again?!)

[haggis]

Michelle Malkin has one of the best posts about the draft nonsense.

Bottom line, it's not going to happen and is being used to scare young voters.

"SCARING UP DEM VOTES

College students are receiving alarmist e-mails warning them they may be drafted if President Bush wins re-election. The text reads as follows:

Mandatory draft for boys and girls (ages 18-26) starting June 15, 2005
There is pending legislation in the House and Senate, S89 and HR 163,to reinstate mandatory draft for boys and girls (ages18-26) starting June 15, 2005. This plan includes women in the draft, eliminates higher education as a shelter, and makes it difficult to cross into Canada.

The Bush administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections. The Bush administration plans to begin mandatory draft in the spring of 2005, just after the 2004 presidential election.

· The Congress has added $28 million to the 2004 selective service system budget to prepare for this military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005.

· Bush has ordered the Selective Service to report to him by March 31, 2005 on their readiness to implement the draft by June 2005

· The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.

Please act on this:

· Tell everyone you know - parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents,
godparents, friends, teachers

· Call and write to your U.S. Senator and your U.S. Representatives and ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills.


A mother whose daughter received the e-mail at the University of Arizona told me her "daughter said a lot of students are getting the same email and they are believing it and saying they won't vote for Bush because of it."

Betsy adds that she saw an MTV Choose or Lose ad using similar scare tactics about the draft. FReepers noticed the same ad. Max Cleland and Howard Dean are also trying to spook the kids to by playing the draft card.

No mention by these fear-mongerers that it has been Democrat Charlie Rangel pushing the draft and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld opposing it. Wouldn't want to spoil the pre-Halloween frightfest with the truth. Here's a reality check from military.com. Excerpt:

"A draft? It's just not going to happen," said Rep. John Kline, R-Minn., a member of the House Armed Services Committee.
Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, the senior Democrat on the Senate Armed Services personnel subcommittee, agreed: "There is very little support in Congress for reinstating the draft."

MISLEADING E-MAIL

Perhaps those comments will help steady the nerves of many Americans apparently rattled by an e-mail that is circulating nationwide. It says that legislation is pending in Congress that would reinstitute the draft for the first time since 1973, starting as early as next spring. It also says that the administration is "quietly trying to get these bills passed now, while the public's attention is on the elections."

There is a kernel of truth to the allegation -- there is a bill pending that would restart the draft. But the Bush administration opposes it, as do Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry and the leadership of both the Democratic and Republican parties in Congress. Everyone remotely in a position to know is quite sure that the bill is going nowhere.

"I don't know anyone in the executive branch of the government who believes that it would be appropriate or necessary to reinstitute the draft," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in April.

The bill's primary sponsor is Rep. Charles Rangel, a liberal Democrat from New York who represents Harlem. Even he admitted that his bill won't pass. He said he introduced it to get people to discuss who is doing the fighting in Iraq...


So tell the kids to wipe their noses and stop worrying about getting drafted.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

On a personal level, I would not want to serve with anyone who didn't want to be there.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by RC:
I'm with barfle...(again?!)

Yeah, you Libertarians always stick together.

[haggis]

RC,

"We all know that the biggest portion of the military is served by poor folk, minority in many cases and that when the bullets fly, they are the ones on the line. I can't imagine this bill would change anything. The rich & powerful will always find the advantage."

...and your souce on that would be?

[OperaTenor]

She polled me.



PS. I joined the military because I couldn't afford to stay in college.

[RC]

Haggis,
Just a couple of black guys:

Secretary of State Colin Powell, in his 1995 autobiography, ``My American Journey,'' called draft policies in place during the Vietnam War that allowed some potential draftees to defer service ``an anti-democratic disgrace.''

Powell, the former chairman of the U.S. military's Joint Chiefs of Staff and a Vietnam veteran, said in an interview with ABC News Sept. 12 that he doesn't expect a resumption of the draft.

``But if we should, for some reason, in the future that I can't anticipate, ever have to go to a conscription-type force again,'' Powell said, ``it should be one that is universal and all are subject to that kind of service for the nation.''

Rangel introduced legislation last year that called for a return to the draft, saying that minorities make up a disproportionate share of the armed services. He also said a draft would diminish support for going to war if more people felt their own children or family members would have to fight.

Oh, and the US Army:

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES ARMY TRAINING AND DOCTRINE COMMAND
102 MCNAIR DRIVE
FORT MONROE, VIRGINIA 23651-1047

REPLY TO
ATTENTION OF
7 April 2003



ATCS-E (690-700)
MEMORANDUM FOR SEE DISTRIBUTION
SUBJECT: Commander’s Statement on the Representation of Minorities and Women at
Grades GS 13-15
1. Continued review of TRADOC GS 13-15 positions indicates that progress is being made in promoting women and minorities into higher-graded positions despite the impact of various Department of Defense downsizing and outsourcing initiatives.
2. White females and several minority groups within TRADOC are still underrepresented at these higher-grade positions. In order to ensure that the underrepresentation of women and minorities is not the result of discriminatory personnel practices, supervisors and managers will carefully review recruitment efforts, interview procedures, and the selection process to ensure all employees are afforded an equal opportunity to compete for jobs, promotions, and training opportunities. Management will ensure all employees are aware of and afforded equal opportunity to participate in career enhancing assignments and training.
3. I encourage all employees to consider attending long-term training, actively seek developmental assignments when possible, and ensure that their personnel records and resumes reflect the most current information. Competition for positions and promotions will continue to be keen as The Army transforms into a leaner and more efficient force. Preparation and training are the keys to advancement into the higher grades in tomorrow’s work force.
4. TRADOC--Where Tomorrow's Victories Begin!

//signed//
KEVIN P. BYRNES
General, U.S. Army
Commanding
DISTRIBUTION:
Commanders
U.S. Army Combined Arms Center
U.S. Army Combined Arms Support Center
U.S. Army Accessions Command
Commandants, TRADOC Service Schools
Directors
U.S. Army Nuclear and Chemical Agency
U.S. Army Aeronautical Services Agency
U.S. Army TRADOC Analysis Center
Deputy Chiefs of General and Chiefs of Special Staff Offices, HQ TRADOC

[RC]

and OT