Will Europe Survive?

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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby BigJon@Work » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:21 pm

Serenity wrote:Yeah, the western religions picture a punishing God that is like an angry father-figure, ready to dish out punishment for disobedience.

I think that is an overly harsh view of western religions.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:25 pm

Islam isnt one of those 'go with the flow' eastern religions. Its based on Judeaism and Christianity, and is as different from them as they are from each other. Islam is pretty specifically a fiercely evangelical religion. From early times, it wasnt convert or go to hell, it was convert or die. Subsects will be fiercer or more easy going, as in any large organization.

Noting that Christianity (and probably most other religions) have had their issues with science was not intended to nullify concerns that Islam is terrifying scientists today. Whenever two large organ/isations/isms try to survive, they will struggle with each other where they intersect. Given the good we believe science has brought to the world, its very unpleasant for us to see it limited because of fear of the way a centuries old book will be interpreted by some angry people. I'd hope, given my choice of career, that's it clear where I stand on that intersection between scientific method and religion. The posts above suggest perhaps its not clear. I'm going back to illuminating manuscripts now.

BigJon, i think Serenity pegged it. Its modern to interpret it differently, but if you read your bible (both halves), it pretty clearly paints Jesus as the giver of warm fuzzies, and God as a self proclaimed 'jealous god'.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby BigJon@Work » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:46 pm

piqaboo wrote: BigJon, i think Serenity pegged it. Its modern to interpret it differently, but if you read your bible (both halves), it pretty clearly paints Jesus as the giver of warm fuzzies, and God as a self proclaimed 'jealous god'.

But also a giver. In other words like a real father, not just an angry one.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Serenity » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:34 pm

Yes, like a real father. Sometimes kids will see their father as angry when he is just being stern.

I lump Islam in the Western religions or the 3 desert religions. When I said East, I meant Far East, as in India, China, Japan (Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism). Although in India, the Sikhs are Islam meets Hinduism; hence the cool 'sword' and turban.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:11 am

Motivated by fear and multiculturalism, too many Westerners are acquiescing to creeping Sharia


Tim Marlow of London’s White Cube Gallery notes that such self-censorship by artists and museums is now common, though “very few people have explicitly admitted” it. British artist Grayson Perry, whose work has mercilessly mocked Christianity, is one who has—and his reluctance isn’t about multicultural sensitivity. “The reason I haven’t gone all out attacking Islamism in my art,” he told the Times of London, “is because I feel real fear that someone will slit my throat.”


There are some signs that people are waking up to this in Europe, but too few.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Sun May 04, 2008 10:13 am

THE SILENT SCREAM of asparagus.

"What is clear, however, is that Switzerland's enshrining of 'plant dignity' is a symptom of a cultural disease that has infected Western civilization, causing us to lose the ability to think critically and distinguish serious from frivolous ethical concerns. It also reflects the triumph of a radical anthropomorphism that views elements of the natural world as morally equivalent to people."
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby jamiebk » Sun May 04, 2008 1:17 pm

I knew a girl a long time ago who would only eat the expendible parts of plants so as not to kill them. Of course she was a vegisaurus as well since she would not touch meat, or fish. I asked her about her leather shoes one time...she said they were fake. I believed her. :roll: :crazy:
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby dai bread » Sun May 04, 2008 5:05 pm

jamiebk wrote:I knew a girl a long time ago who would only eat the expendible parts of plants so as not to kill them.


This isn't as crazy as it sounds. It's the way we eat our lettuces in summer. We plant several varieties, and pick leaves as we want them. The plants last for weeks that way. Granted there are many edible species where this is not possible (cabbages, for instance), but where it is possible it makes sense. Harvesting potatoes this way is a classic. You grow them in a container, then burrow in the container for the potatoes, or remove part of the container, depending on its type. You prolong the yield time considerably.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby barfle » Sun May 04, 2008 10:14 pm

Now if I can only figure out how to do that with carrots... :crazy:
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Shapley » Mon May 05, 2008 8:10 am

I mowed the lawn this weekend. Since I mow about 10 acres, I'm sure I killed more plants than would be considered morally necessary. I had considered allowing the hilltop (about five acres) to grow enough to allow the cutting of hay, but opted against it.

The tall grass was thick with Mayflies. The swarmed about the whole time I mowed. dragonflies were numerous, though not nearly as thick as last spring. I saw one turtle, and got a whiff of skunk spray, but never saw the skunk. The turtle, once uncovered, kept trying to make its' way into the unmowed area, and was quite persistent. I mowed both sided of the strip it was in, continually throwing the clippings towards the turtle. Eventually, It must have decided it had enough cover in the clippings, as it gave up making its' way to the tall grass. I kept observing its' snake-like head protruding from the clippings, but it seemed content to remain in place, and was thus spared a cruel death by lawn-mower.

There were few wildflowers mixed in the grass I mowed, which was mostly fescue. There were some thistles, dandelions, and blackberry briars in the mix, and plenty of white clover. The clover tends to thrive after mowing in the spring, but usually loses out to the tall grasses in late summer. I sometimes leave patches of clover unmowed, to leave the flowers available for the honeybees. I haven't seen any honeybees yet this year, but it was a bit cool. The temperature on Saturday didn't get over 60 degrees F until late afternoon. Sunday was warmer, somewhere around 70 degrees F, with lots of sun.

The songbirds seem to be happy that I mowed. When I left for work this morning, the mowed areas were covered with them. Goldfinches, Indigo Buntings, Cardinals, Brown-Headed Cowbirds, and several large birds that I could not identify.

I can't say whether or not I commited an immoral act by mowing the lawn. I'm content that the wildlife does not suffer to greatly from the act, and some seem even to thrive as a result of it.

V/R
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby piqaboo » Mon May 05, 2008 11:34 am

A child accidently spilled a pet pillbug onto a crowded patio. It met the sole of an adult shoe, all unknowing. There was great mourning on the child's part. Later, child was pleased to examine its 'bones', knowing now that the pill bug had gone to pillbug heaven, leaving its broken body behind. Pillbugs in pillbug heaven can play games they cant play in their real bodies. Live pillbugs can't wrestle, for fear of breaking a leg, but heavenly pillbugs love to wrestle, free of that fear.

An older child hypothesized that
a) first the pillbug went to animal heaven, where a pig stepped on it, squashing it (again) and sending it onto pillbug heaven.
b) if a pillbug in animal or pillbug heaven has offspring, those show up as live pillbugs here on earth.

It was an interesting evening, metaphysically speaking.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon May 05, 2008 12:19 pm

piqaboo wrote: An older child hypothesized that...



OT??? :rofl:
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu May 08, 2008 3:44 pm

The Sun

LABOUR has slumped to its lowest point since records began in the 1930s, a devastating Sun poll reveals tonight.

And the Tories are enjoying their second biggest poll lead in history.


Titanic. Deck chairs.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Shapley » Mon May 12, 2008 10:13 am

Pagan Prisoners Win The Right To Retain 'Magic Wands' In Prison Cells For Religious Purposes

I gather that Apperating and using the Alohomora spell are forbidden...
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon May 26, 2008 9:16 am

From The Church of England Newspaper:

If recent reports of trends in religious observance prove to be correct, then in some 30 years the mosque will be able to claim that, religiously speaking, the UK is an Islamic nation, and therefore needs a share in any religious establishment to reflect this....

At all levels of national life Islam has gained state funding, protection from any criticism, and the insertion of advisors and experts in government departs national and local. A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better. In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

While men-only gentlemen’s clubs are now being dubbed unlawful, we hear of municipal swimming baths encouraging ‘Muslim women only’ sessions and in Dewsbury Hospitals staff waste time by turning beds to face Mecca five times a day — a Monty Pythonesque scenario of lunacy, but astonishingly true...

The point is that Islam is being institutionalised, incarnated, into national structures amazingly fast, at the same time as demography is showing very high birthrates...

Today the Christian story is fading from public imagination, while Islam grows apace.


Strange to witness one of the oldest and most successful of nations commit suicide without even being aware of what it's doing.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby dai bread » Mon May 26, 2008 6:55 pm

Amazing. Why don't they just leave the beds facing Mecca? Then they wouldn't have to turn them. And what's wrong with a murder charge for "honour" killings? Why does Baroness Scotland want a separate law? Why are a people who are largely irreligious so hung up about someone else's religion? Fear of bombs wouldn't have anything to do with it, of course.

The British are tired. So, I think, is Western Europe. Like the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and Ottomans before them, the old Empires have collapsed and their foundations are eroding.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Shapley » Tue May 27, 2008 12:45 pm

Health and Safety Board Tells Woman She Needs Insurance, Professional Lifeguard For 2' Wading Pool

Apparently, Britain is working hard to reduce the problem of out-of-work lifeguards...
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue May 27, 2008 1:24 pm

dai bread wrote: The British are tired. So, I think, is Western Europe. Like the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and Ottomans before them, the old Empires have collapsed and their foundations are eroding.


Socialism will do that to you. Actually, the more radical elements of Islam (..is that an oxymoronic statement?) want to reinstate the Ottoman empire exceptthis time it will rule the earth.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Shapley » Tue May 27, 2008 4:34 pm

Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Will Europe Survive?

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu May 29, 2008 9:47 am

In Britain, Rape Cases Seldom Result in a Conviction

According to government statistics, only 5.7 percent of rapes officially recorded by police in England and Wales end in a conviction.


I’ve begun looking for positive reports that affirm or indicate that there is some glimmer of hope for the UK and have begun to despair that there are any.

I love England. I lived there a total of 10 years between 1958 and 1984. I have friends there and I am in pain every time I see something like this.

I can only assume that Piq’s mom and dad are equally pained.
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