Just One More Gripe

[shostakovich]

Yesterday I saw a TV program about Bush and prayer. GAG!!! Nobody in politics will publicly assail the President on religion, so today I wrote a letter to Newsweek. However, they rarely print letters that do not refer to Newsweek articles. Pity. So I decided to share it with you lucky folks.


"The fact that the President's policies flagrantly favor business, industry, and the rich, is tough enough to swallow. It also goes against Christ's teachings. His "religious" bent, which should be kept out of government, has led to anti-scientific decisions on the environment and stem cell research. He apparently prays for guidance, and the world "benefits" from the results. Nobody prays to everyone's God. Yet, as our President, he feels comfortable in imposing his personal religious ideas on us, and on the world at large. Such thinking gave rise to the Crusades, the Inquisition, and, more recently, the Taliban. We must separate Church from State. We must separate Bush from Washington."


Thanks for humoring me by reading it.
Shos

[Serenity]

Bush and Kerry have been running about equal in the polls in all regions of the country except the South; Bush seems to have the South. Is this the Baptist or Bible Belt?

[NudewigVonB]

Yup Serenity,
From Southern Virginia to Louisiana and Texas:
Closed minds, closed hearts, and hypocrites dominate the (largely Baptist) landscape. I don't like stereotyping, and certainly there are pockets of rational thought (Atlanta, Charlotte, etc), but Bush's crusader mentality certainly strikes a chord with the majority of voters in the south.

[mmichaelson]

Nude:
Hello from the hypocritical south, apparently.

It is unkind, as I have said before, to apply stereotypes to an area or group you are not familiar with.

I have seen many people say that the south is the "Bible Belt" and that Southern Baptism reigns supreme here. . .and they can quote all the statistics they want- I LIVE here, and have for my entire life. Baptism is a popular denomination here, to be sure, but so are Catholocism, Methodism, and the Church of Christ. Those are the predominant denominations (at least across the state of Texas). And there seem to be an equal number of HUGE churches in each large metropolis to suggest fairly equal numbers. In fact, around here there are far more large Catholic churches than there are Baptist.

Bush's "crusader mentality" strikes a chord with voters down here for a lot of reasons:
Most locals can identify with a man who talks like them; with a man who doens't coat his language with slick pre-fabricated speeches meant to appease and to sedate the general public. Kerry is a slick speaker, and that doesn't generally sit well with most people who seem to be fitting into your stereotype. (Hell, I'm not ignorant, and it doesn't sit well with me)

I spent 4 1/2 years at probably the MOST conservative school in the nation (Texas A&M University), got a damn good education and don't consider myself a hypocrite, have a closed mind, or a closed heart, and I hope that the rest of the bbb.com will attest to that.

We're not crusaders, we just prefer a more conservative look at things. To be honest, if you want to call southerners anything, you'd be closer with politically ignorant. I won't fight that, I deal with that every day.

The southern "Bible Belt" (geez, I hate that title, it's very antiquated and not truly correct anymore) has deep religious roots, whether Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, or other. We generally tend to vote more conservative because the conservative agenda fits more with our religious outlook. (ie, abortion, stem cell research, cloning, etc) How does that make us hypocritical, as a whole?

I will fight to the death about my southern heritage. Stereotypes do not work under most circumstances, and certainly not to describe the south. Just because we talk slow, doesn't mean we are slow. (and I know that you didn't infer that. . .just wanted to clarify).

Also, voting trends in the south will probably begin to change in the near future, due to an increase in migrants and immigrants. We will see the outcome, but I think the trend will loosen up in the future.

(steps down off the soap box)

[eaphil]

From Southern Virginia to Louisiana and Texas: Closed minds, closed hearts, and hypocrites dominate the (largely Baptist) landscape. I don't like stereotyping, and certainly there are pockets of rational thought (Atlanta, Charlotte, etc), but Bush's crusader mentality certainly strikes a chord with the majority of voters in the south.

Nailed me. Delta of Mississippi (no urban pocket of rationality here). Attend a Southern Baptist church (really bad -- twice on Sunday). Can some rational, right-thinking soul rescue me from my closed-mind, closed-heart hypocrisy?

If I believe something and try to live my life (and cast my vote) in ways that reflect what I believe, how is that hypocritical? I might be wrong about what I believe, but hypocritical?

I think it is hypocrisy to claim to be open-minded and open-hearted and then stereotype those who disagree with you or live in the wrong place or go to the wrong church (or go to any church at all).

Why is it that those who preach tolerance often are so intolerant of those who disagree with them? I disagree with many BBB-posters about many things, but I respect each of them. I understand there are reasons we see things differently, and I learn from trying to see things from other perspectives. I've even changed my mind a few times.

Sorry for the rant. You hit a couple of nerves.

Dang it! I've been sucked into that opinion thing.

Ed

<small>[ 10-12-2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: eaphil ]</small>

[mmichaelson]

I know what you mean eaphil.

It sucks to get stereotyped and you're clueless as to how or why. . .
It also irks me. . .

I tried to be non-irate in my reply. Hope I succeeded.
Wouldn't want to be narrow-minded or anything.

[RC]

he feels comfortable in imposing his personal religious ideas on us, and on the world at large. Such thinking gave rise to the Crusades, the Inquisition, and, more recently, the Taliban. We must separate Church from State.

Interesting. Were you waiting for an invitation to elaborate or just speaking your piece?

[Shapley]

How many times has John Kerry stated that he is a Catholic, just before telling us that his "beliefs" will not influence his vote.

This sounds hypocritical to me.

Bush tells us what he stands for, and why.

V/R

A south-of-the-Mason/Dixon line Catholic
Shapley

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Dear Nekkit:

Please consider yourself invited to the next family reunion. Several dozen of my cousins, second cousins, fourth cousins twice removed, and an auntie (all of whom answer either to "Bubba" or "Sissy") will feed you, find you a place to sleep, and provide you with your choice of intoxicant (except cousin Floyd, who's the local Baptist preacher) and he'll bless you instead.

You might want to watch those sweeping generalizations. Some boy named Bubba might take it personal.

[mmichaelson]

Or some "sissy"

[Shapley]

Saxy,

I think the term is "girlie man"

I think, however, if attend church for any reason other than to pander for votes, you can not be allowed to join the ranks of the "enlightened", as currenlty defined.

V/R
Shapley

[mmichaelson]

Ha, girlie man sissy, or relative sissy. . .


I hate having knee-jerk reactions, but I HATE being stereotyped as a southerner (well, in general, really).

Nude, I wasn't trying to put you down, so much as to explain my position, and why your post bothered me, so I hope you didn't take my rebuttal the wrong way.

[Marye]

Originally posted by Shapley:
Bush tells us what he stands for, and why.

V/R
A south-of-the-Mason/Dixon line Catholic
Shapley

You're absolutely right, Shap!

Nov. 2, 2000, SEATTLE --

"If you don't stand for anything, you don't stand for anything!"

Gov. George W. Bush said to a packed rally at Bellevue Community College.

[Shapley]

Marye,

RE:"If you don't stand for anything, you don't stand for anything!"

Are you saying this isn't true?

[RC]

As president of the US, do you decide what is best for the citizens of the US or do you represent the citizens of the US?

[mmichaelson]

Well, technically, you represent them. . .but most presidents do a mixture of both, I tend to think.
decide, represent, I think it all runs together for them. Especially once they realize that they can't represent ALL Americans at once, since we have different opinions. . .

[Marye]

Shap...

If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything

would have been a wiser way of putting it.

[Shapley]

Marye,

Nah! That sounds like some dumb ole country-western song!

Also depends on the context. I can imagine a situation in which I would intentionally make such a statement which, when quoted elsewhere, would not have made sense.

V/R
Shapley

[RC]

Especially once they realize that they can't represent ALL Americans at once, since we have different opinions. . .

Thats what I figure our founding fathers were considering when they created the constitution we've followed for 228 years.

When you read it, you get the distinct impression that they wanted the president to interdict very little personal judgement.

[mmichaelson]

Right, but I think the presidents make up what that means as they go.

"interpreting" the constitution and so forth. . ..

(not that I agree with it)