The Project for a New American Century

[OperaTenor]

Is everyone out there familiar with this organization? If not, I highly reccommend reading their "Statement of Principles". Take special note of just who is signed onto this diatribe. To me, it's not hard to read between the lines as to their true purpose. With all three branches of government now under their control, who's to stop them?

Is this what we really want for the world?

[Marye]

I read this about a month ago, OT. Scares me witless.

[OperaTenor]

What say the folks who support this administration => this agenda? Did I miss a transition somewhere? Is this nation all about conquest of the world now?

[Shapley]

OT,

I read through the linked pages briefly. Looks like another think-tank. There are hundreds of such organizations out there, left and right, with the names of prominent politicians displayed proudly as board members, supporters, founders, etc.

What, exactly, scares you so much about this one?

V/R
Shapley

[dai bread]

What's Dan Quayle doing on that list of signatories? He was renowned for what have now become known as Bushisms, I believe. Maybe this is another.

Like most political doctrines, there's enough truth in it to make it sound reasonable. Developing situations do have to be nipped in the bud, for instance.

The trouble comes in deciding what is a "situation" and what is self-determination. Who makes that decision and what interests are they promoting? We-the-people are never told.

At the moment, I am glad I do not live in the Iran or Syria.

[haggis]

OT,
I rather agree with Shapley (unsurprising as that may sound) what has you worried?

I guess I'm too naive to see the "sinister" side of the document.

At least they put a "triple secret lock" on it so outsiders didn't find out about it, after all, that might foil the plan.

[OperaTenor]

"• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;

• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;

• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles."

The first bullet promotes strengthening the military industrial complex(an entity that was supposed to be rendered unnecessary by the "winning" of the Cold War). The last two bullets can easily run in direct conflict with each other: The last justifying violating the third if a certain country doesn't conform to our idea of an "international order".
How can a sovereign nation feel like they've got political or economic freedom when they've got the world's biggest arsenal of all kinds of weapons and might with an agenda looking over their shoulder?
I'm not even going to touch principles, these guys don't have 'em.
Three of the signitories to this(and they know their names are listed) are three of the most powerful warmongers in the world, and they've just been further legitimized, and they seem to have no shortage of greed and ego.

Do we have the right to impose this type of pogrom on the world?

Could you be so kind as to provide me with a list of think tanks with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Jeb Bush(let alone the others) on their roster(s)?

[OperaTenor]

Hi Haggis,

I'm really glad you're back from your sabbatical from our lunatic ravings here.

UBL's apparently alive and well. What does that say about us?

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Alright, OT, that's twice. I don't really think you meant to use the word "pogrom", or, if you did, don't actually know what it means and implies. So I looked it up for you.

pogrom

SYLLABICATION: po·grom
PRONUNCIATION: p-grm, pgrm
NOUN: An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews.
ETYMOLOGY: Russian, outrage, havoc, from pogromit', to wreak havoc : po-, adverbial pref. (from po, next to; see apo- in Appendix I) + gromit', to outrage, wreak havoc (from grom, thunder).
~The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.

[analog]

OT, Marye, Dai :

PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses" bothered me. It sounds like sugar coated swagger and uncomfortably close to what's actually happening... They almost asked for "a new Pearl Harbor" in section V.
It's the first link on PNAC page, a bit long but easy to read.

I'd appreciate somebody else's take on it, especially from outside the US. I tend to be not very astute about these things.

[analog]

ps here's one opinion from overseas
<http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/07/1046826528748.html?oneclick=true>

if the link doesn't work then google on: "think tank war" margo kingston

[GreatCarouser]

"The difference between a moral man and a man of honor is that the latter regrets a discreditable act, even when it has worked and he has not been caught."
H. L. Mencken, 'Prejudices: Fourth Series,' 1924


What scares me about PNAC is that when you read the 'Letters' link on the main page and follow the historical path from the group's letter to President Clinton (I previously linked to it as an example of the Bush administrations'intention to attack Iraq prior to 9/11 and the 'terrorist/WMD lies'being nothing more than a smokescreen to conceal a predetermined agenda from public scrutiny.)onward you see that our fate is in the hand of ideologues who are immune to 'advice and consent' if the input is in any way negative toward their point of view.

The 'voice of the majority' has been heard. Despite reams of evidence of malfeasance, fiscal irresponsibility, and moral vacuity a majority of Americans feel safer knowing that the guys who didn't guard the explosives and the uranium from looters are still in charge of our country. So be it...but in the future don't trouble me, America, with your hypocrisy about a leader's 'morality'.


What charity should get my 'donation', BBB'ers?


"Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever."
Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia - denouncing the evils of slavery

<small>[ 11-04-2004, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: The Great Carouser ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:
Alright, OT, that's twice. I don't really think you meant to use the word "pogrom", or, if you did, don't actually know what it means and implies. So I looked it up for you.

Yes, I meant pogrom, and I meant it to conjure images of massacre on a genocidal scale, because these people are one very small step away from the type of superiority trip that caused the Holocaust, IMNHSO.

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by The Great Carouser:

What charity should get my 'donation', BBB'ers?

How 'bout the ACLU?

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by The Great Carouser:
What charity should get my 'donation', BBB'ers?

How 'bout the volunteers at the VA hospital?
Jewish Family Services?
Sister Claire?

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Yes, I meant pogrom

<sigh> we're gonna have one of those difference of opinion things. I've seen both pogrom and jihad on the news recently, but it doesn't seem like I'm the cossack.

[OperaTenor]

Well, if I said "Neocon 'Christian' Right Jihad" would you feel better?

[rwcrooks]

OT,

Those bullet points you put in your message sound awful close to what Kerry was saying his plans were.

[RC]

RichC
First, pardon me for stepping in. The bullets OT posts are PART of the PNAC doctrine used to emphasize particular points he was making.

What is VERY different about what Kerry says and what Bush, the Bush Doctrine, & the PNAC says is that Kerry strongly and repeatedly stated that unilateralism is not a good option. Unilateralism is the core of the presidents doctrine.

Both can be found on-line in their entirety. The differences are stark although the ultimate goal is security. That is almost ALWAYS what divides.

[Shapley]

GC,

I would suggest the Catholic Near East Welfare Association. There site can be found here:

http://www.cnewa.org/

V/R
Shapley