The Project for a New American Century

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Shapley:
OT,

I read through the linked pages briefly. Looks like another think-tank. There are hundreds of such organizations out there, left and right, with the names of prominent politicians displayed proudly as board members, supporters, founders, etc.


V/R
Shapley

Can you give me the name of ONE other right wing think tank that is comprised entirely of members of the Bush administration and Jeb?

<small>[ 11-04-2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[piqaboo]

I love these discussions. So long as GWB can only be in charge for 4 more years, I think the world will survive with some diversity.

I will spend the next 4 years VERY glad I dont live in a small town in the middle of our continent. I am too different to be accepted easily as we swing back from our liberal social ways to a more conservative / traditional view.
I think GWB illustrates this change in our society - I dont think he caused it.

[rwcrooks]

Piq,

That's a pretty stereotypical view of the continental middle. Not everyone here is an ultra conservative. Actually, if you look at the way the vote turned out, there's only a few percentage points additional conservative voters here than in California.

I'm actually glad that I live in a small town in the middle. It's a great community.

[Shapley]

Piq,

You should visit Eureka Springs, Ark. We were there for a short while last weekend. It is as liberal a community as you would find in California or New York. It is a quaint community, with fascinating architecture, too.

It's not very wheelchair or stroller friendly, though, as we found out. We had my stepson along, and couldn't find many places his wheelchair would fit. The trolleys are accessible, so we strapped him and toured by trolley, to save wear and tear on the transmission in the van. Those hills and narrow streets are pretty rugged.

V/R
Shapley

[piqaboo]

Sounds good RichC & Shap.
My experience is limited to
2 towns in wisconsin and one in pennsylvania.

it is not being a political liberal that causes the mis-fit. We plan to take the altoid touring thru the us as we can pull together time & funds. I promise not to share my bias with her.

[haggis]

Well, I posted this link elsewhere but if we are going to discuss the red and blue states I think a county-by-county view is equally instructive.

Geographically, at least, California is more conservative than in the metro areas mainly clustered around SF and LA.

Don't forget it wasn't that long ago that CA was considered a "safe" Republican state. Will it ever be again? Dunno, but it's fun to speculate

[piqaboo]

It used to be a relatively safe place to be "different" too.
here's hoping it stays that way.

[dai bread]

I find the present U.S. administration more alarming than Al Qeda. AQ can't touch us except to blow up a few people. The U.S. can; not only explosively, but by way of trade & economics that can have huge effects on all of us.

That is not to say that I think they'll do it. But then, I didn't think the French govt. would blow up a ship in our harbour either.

Dwight Eisenhower's comments about the military-industrial complex should be more widely publicised, along with the date he made them and his party affiliation.

Our left-wing govt. will almost certainly be re-elected next year. It is led by a woman renowned for the anti-Americanism of her University years, and some suggest that she still holds those opinions. Does that put us on a hit list?

Luckily we don't feature on U.S. radar very often.

[shostakovich]

From DB: "I find the present U.S. administration more alarming than Al Qaeda."

Amen

[OperaTenor]

I came across this article , found it interesting.

Of course, it's preposterous to entertain the notion the boys at the helm are interested in world domination. What a lark!

[RC]

That's just another one of those head-in-the-sand things as far as I'm concerned.
If it's uncomfortable to consider, people won't.

It's like I said on a disapearing post - if there's a pot of boiling water on the stove and a chance that your toddler is going to grab it and get burned, should you just hope it will never happen or DO something to prevent it?

I know it's really difficult to prevent it - oh wait, it's not...

[OperaTenor]

So - what do we do?

[haggis]

Hmmm, I dunno, that Canadian might be on to something, read the last Q and A in the following FAQ about ninjas

Ninja FAQ

"Now that Bush is reelected and terrorism is handled, it's time to focus on other threats - such as ninjas!

NINJA FAQ

Q. Why an FAQ rather than a regular Know Thy Enemy™ format?
A. Because ninjas are extra troublesome and thus require the format of the revered FAQ!

Q. Does that mean no jokes at Aquaman's expense?
A. I'm sorry, but no.

Q. Isn't there already a definitive website on ninjas?
A. I believe that website is somewhat loose with the facts.

Q. So ninjas aren't mammals?
A. Don't put words in my mouth.

Q. Are ninjas Chinese or Japanese?
A. I dunno; they wear masks.

Q. What do ninjas eat?
A. Rice and turtle meat.

Q. I live in the Midwest; surely I don't have worry about ninjas.
A. WRONG! Ninjas are everywhere and just waiting to attack you. Also, that wasn't technically a question.

Q. How come I don't see any?
A. Because ninjas are good at stealth and hiding.

Q. I heard a strange noise behind me. Was that a ninja?
A. Probably.

Q. Can't I just shoot ninjas?
A. No, they dodge bullets.

Q. What if I have extra fast bullets?
A. They're still faster than those.

Q. What about Speedy Gonzales?
A. Ninjas are not faster than him.

Q. Why not have Speedy Gonzales fight all the ninjas then?
A. Because he has to shout "Andale, andale! Ariba, ariba! Eh-hah!" before being fast, giving ninjas plenty of time to hide.

Q. Is it true the government is working on a new, quieter version of Speedy Gonzales?
A. I can neither confirm nor deny that.

Q. How can I fight back against ninjas?
A. With kung fu skills.

Q. How long does it take to develop kung fu skills?
A. A lifetime.

Q. What if I only have a couple hours free?
A. It's better than nothing.

Q. I don't have time to become a kung fu master.
A. Then you better schedule time - to die!

Q. Aren't we by kung fu fighting ninjas just contributing to the cycle of violence?
A. Yeah. So?

Q. You're not supposed to ask questions.
A. I can do what I want.

Q. Isn't there a quicker easier way to defend against ninjas?
A. You could hire a wandering ronin.

Q. Are they all trustworthy?
A. Well, uh... carpe diem.

Q. Don't you mean "caveat emptor"?
A. Shut up.

Q. Is it true that ninjas poison their blades?
A. I'm not sure. Best not to get cut by them just in case.

Q. I'm worried about their throwing stars. What do I do?
A. Use your kung fu skills to dodge them. Alternatively, block them with a katana.

Q. What if the ninja is expecting me to dodge and thus throws a star not quite aimed at me? Aren't I better off then just standing still?
A. Now you’re just being silly.

Q. Can't I just build a big wall to protect me from ninjas?
A. Ninjas can climb walls.

Q. What about a moat?
A. Ninjas can jump far and will jump over your moat.

Q. What if it's a really wide moat?
A. That might work.

Q. Can monkeys be ninjas?
A. Maybe, but you should kill them anyway.

Q. I hear ninjas climb around in the rafters of buildings. Is that true?
A. Yes. Whenever entering a building, fire blindly into the rafters.

Q. I thought you said before they dodge bullets?
A. I say lots of things.

Q. Do ninjas hide in trees?
A. All the time, so cut down trees. No safe haven for ninjas!

Q. But I like forests.
A. Then you're a ninja sympathizer!

Q. Well, aren't there good ninjas?
A. Yes, dead ninjas... unless they become zombies.

Q. How do I fight zombie ninjas?
A. Now we're getting out of my scope of knowledge. Try a crucifix.

Q. A crucifix? That's your solution for everything supernatural!
A. Well I'm Catholic; what do you want?

Q. Can we even win the war against ninjas?
A. Ninjas have been around since the days of Noah, and they shall always be around. The best we can do is make attacking Americans so hard that they stick to attacking countries we don't care about.

Q. What countries don't we care about?
A. I can't name them because I never heard of them... which is part of the reason I don't care about them."

I guess PNAC's pro-Ninja as well, those ruthless b*****ds!!


I would also encourage everyone except Shos, and possibly Marye, to read Nuke the Moon post.

I think Shos might flip a switch and Marye is, well, just too nice

My favorite quote,

"Now, if I were president, here’s what I would do. Next time some country does something we don’t take a pining too, such as supporting terrorism or speaking French, I’d pick the dumbest reason for an attack, e.g., "A ‘q’ should always be followed by a ‘u’. I don’t make the rules, Iraq, but I will enforce them."

The more irrational you look, the more scared the country will be that you will really hit them hard. I’d then give the country the old one-week notice until bombing starts.

Then, after just twenty-four hours, I’d start bombing. When the stupid dictator calls to complain, I’d say, "I meant one week max. Oh, and by the way, ground troops - one week."

<small>[ 11-16-2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Haggis ]</small>

[RC]

ROFL, you're right, Marye is WAY too nice for that...lol

snicker snicker...

dang, I wish it were that easy.

[RC]

OT, the easy thing would have been to not vote for Bush. (Remove the boiling pot from the vulnerable burner...duh).

Next best thing is just keep talking I guess.

What do you think?

Maybe Haggis knows GWB personally and feels more comfortable giving him the reins to the universe. I'm not so inclined.

[OperaTenor]

He must know something we don't and isn't giving it up.

Me, I haven't met anyone yet who I'd dare trust with universal intergalactic domination.

Funny website. I hope it's still not a crime to laugh in four years.

There, there, it's only the PNAC.....nothing to harm you.....it doesn't matter if their agenda is perceived in many corners to be that of world domination, OR that most of their key members are policymakers sitting on the largest stockpile of WMD's in the world. They're just a "think tank".....they won't act on any of that theory......oh, wait, they already have......



Haggis, the quote you posted has certain point. If we hadn't farted around openly preparing to attack Falluja for weeks, figuratively erecting a billboard that said" Hey, bad guys, we're going to attack you in X number of weeks, so you might want to find another hiding place to attack us from." , we might have had a little better luck catching some of the leaders.
I always thought the element of surprise was fundamental to warfare.

:confused:

<small>[ 11-16-2004, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[RC]

God says to me with a kind of smile,
"Hey how would you like to be God awhile
And steer the world?"
"Okay," says I, "I'll give it a try.
Where do I set?
How much do I get?
What time is lunch?
When can I quit?"
"Gimme back that wheel," says God.
"I don't think you're quite ready yet."

Shel Silverstein

[GreatCarouser]

Have you noticed the post election federal bloodletting? Anyone remotely hostile to PNAC agenda has been leaving the ship of state. CIA career persons are leaving in droves. IMO Ashcroft's leaving was a trinket tossed to the moderates to distract from the full scale assault on the Federal courts and the never-ending 'War on Terror'. A war, perhaps, we brought upon ourselves?

I'm not excusing the terrorists here. they should be caught and punished. I'm just reviewing our foreign policy back to the '70's and wondering at the cycle of events pushed into play by our strategies of playing both ends against the middle in the Iraq/Iran war, Somoza, Iran/Contra, the Lebanese car bombing of our base etc.

What did we get for Gulf War I? An airbase in Saudi Arabia. What set Osama into high gear? The American base in Saudi Arabia. I can't develop this fully without doing a lot more research but suffice it to say that it appears the cycle of war in third world countries perpetuated by our government may well have come back to bite us. Perhaps it wasn't the right thing to train dictators and their operatives in covert operations after all?

[Serenity]

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
So - what do we do?

How about some sort of civil disobedience to show non-support? Any ideas?

[Serenity]

The power of rulers depends on the consent of the populace. Without a bureaucracy, army or police force, the ruler is powerless. Power depends on the cooperation of others. Nonviolence undermines the power of rulers through the deliberate withdrawal of this cooperation.

Ghandi saw Truth as something multifaceted; we all carry pieces of the truth but we need the pieces of others' truths in order to pursue the greater Truth. This leads Ghandi to the belief in the inherent worth of dialogue with opponents and a sincere with to understand their drives and motivations. In order to be heard by one's opponents, one must also be prepared to listen.

Leon Trotsky and Malcolm X were critics of nonviolence, arguing that violence is a necessary step to revolutionary change. "Nonviolence presupposes the existence of compassion and a sense of justice on the part of one's adversary. When the adversary has everything to lose and nothing to gain by exercising justice and compassion, his reaction can only be negative" (Malcolm X)