Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

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Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby barfle » Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:13 pm

And away we go...

First, some portions of it have already been declared Unconstitutional. That tells me that the authors were unconcerned about whether or not the act even bothered trading freedom for security (bad enough in itself) but simply reduced our freedoms (abhorrent to anyone who feels the sacrifices made by the American Revolution had any meaning).

Is them fightin' words?

<small>[ 12-06-2004, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: barfle ]</small>
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby RC » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:43 pm

The Patriot Act increases the governments surveillance powers in four areas:

Records searches. It expands the government's ability to look at records on an individual's activity being held by a third parties. (Section 215)
Secret searches. It expands the government's ability to search private property without notice to the owner. (Section 213)
Intelligence searches. It expands a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment that had been created for the collection of foreign intelligence information (Section 218).
"Trap and trace" searches. It expands another Fourth Amendment exception for spying that collects "addressing" information about the origin and destination of communications, as opposed to the content (Section 214).
ACLU of course

Unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to argue the document itself which is just vague enough to provide ample discretionary wiggle room, besides being a gruelling read.

Surveillance orders can be based in part on a person's First Amendment activities, such as the books they read, the Web sites they visit, or a letter to the editor they have written.
Yikes! You should see the wide variety of stuff I've checked out of the library. The library is restricted from telling you that the FBI requested any information. Websites?, I remember searching the internet for information about the physical white house for my daughter's project. I've ended up at al Jazeera a couple of times from following news links at Google News. Also, spent a lot of time at the NTSB site investigating aircraft accidents. That can't look good. :(

Wait a minute! Why am I even thinking about this? I shouldn't be afraid of reading something in a library or on the internet.

It's not like our gov would ever imprison someone mistakenly without access to defense or even trial. Shees. Forget it everyone, its just me being paranoid again.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby barfle » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:54 pm

Ahh, the ACLU. Interesting outfit, one I generally think keeps their eye on the word "Liberties" in their name, although they often step on themselves by championing the liberties of extreme outfits like NAMBLA.

I know that was a free speech issue, not a free action issue, but even I'm a bit ambivalent about speech that advocates homosexual relations with children (because I feel that children aren't mature enough to make decisions about sex, so an adult advising them that way is usurping the child's right to make an informed decision).

To make a point about those of us who whine about the blasphemously titled USA PATRIOT act, though, about all that needs to be said is "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty," and "Those who would trade a little freedom for a little security deserve and will receive neither."
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby RC » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:21 pm

re: ACLU
I agree generally. I suspected that would make peoples stomachs roll :roll:

Have you actually tried to read the act and then defend this position?
It's musch easier to find someone who has done it in court. Thus the ACLU.
But if you would like other sources, here are some examples of protestation of the act:
Wyoming legislature,

Vermont,
RI bill ,
NM House Judiciary
That would probably keep you entertained for awhile.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby Nicole Marie » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:43 pm

Hey folks back off the ACLU a bit. There are some of us who are members and volunteer time with them... OK that's me.

They are there for you if you need them. Rush would know, he was one of their biggest critics but then needs their help when the Patriot Act was used to access his medical files. The ACLU has seen a sharp rise in the number of civil rights violations since the Patriot Act was passed. Seems there is reason to be conserned. RC said it best, the Act is to vague and we should have reason to worry.

<small>[ 12-02-2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby RC » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:30 pm

ACLU is there for everyone. Bless em! I'm glad they are. I hate some of the things they defend but I'm sure as heck glad they do.

By the way, thanks for the outstanding example of the misuse of the Patriot Act.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby piqaboo » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:00 pm

The Patriot Act gives gov't the power necessary to run a tyranny.

It moves us to a system closer to that of France than of the one we think of as American. The dearly beloved French operate on a "guilty until proven innocent" basis. I guess that would be "The Freedoms" operate on a "guilty until proven innocent" basis.

Perhaps Nicole will get that visit to Gitmo, once the higher priority dissenters and "terrorists" are dealt with. Those ACLU dues will be worth every penny!

I also dislike some of what the ACLU defends, but defend their right to do so! Checks and balances......
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby GreatCarouser » Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:23 pm

I'm a card carrying member myself....why do I think this comes as no surprise to most of you? :cool:
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby GreatCarouser » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:05 pm

Her's one of many reasons why I belong to ACLU: Domestic spying.....again!
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:30 am

For those who do not have access to the Washington Post here is the article that was linked. Damn Quakers! I knew they were up to something ;) (that's a joke kids)

Coalition Seeks FBI's Files on Protest Groups

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 3, 2004; Page A03

The American Civil Liberties Union joined with dozens of activist groups yesterday in demanding information about federal counterterrorism surveillance efforts, alleging that the FBI and local police departments have targeted peaceful protest groups and law-abiding citizens for scrutiny based on their political beliefs.

In Freedom of Information Act requests filed in the District and 10 states, the ACLU and its affiliates are seeking FBI files about groups and individuals allegedly under surveillance. They are also asking for details about the operations of Joint Terrorism Task Forces, which include federal and local law enforcement officers and which coordinate counterterrorism probes regionally.

The ACLU points to several incidents over the past year involving antiwar protesters, environmental groups and religious organizations that have raised questions about the scope of counterterrorism investigations. The organization argues that the evidence suggests a pattern of broader harassment of left-leaning groups.

"We aren't trying to say that they can't and don't need to investigate people who happen to be members of political or religious groups when they have concrete evidence of criminality," said ACLU Associate Legal Director Ann Beeson. "But we have evidence that they are targeting these groups with nothing at all. . . . They shouldn't be wasting their time or our money infiltrating peace groups or collecting files on the Quakers or the Catholic Peace Ministries."

An FBI official, who would discuss details of counterterrorism cases only on the condition of anonymity, said some of the incidents highlighted by the ACLU did not involve the FBI. In other cases, the FBI was investigating legitimate potential threats connected to the national political conventions or other events, the official said.

"They've drawn their conclusion before they've done their research," the FBI official said. "All of our cases are predicated on allegations of criminal activity or national security issues. . . . If there is a threat involved, we have to look at it."

The debate is the latest in a series of disputes over the aggressive counterterrorism tactics used by federal authorities since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, which prompted a restructuring of the FBI to focus on thwarting future terrorist strikes and ushered in legislation that strengthened the Justice Department's ability to conduct secret searches and surveillance.

The ACLU and other groups have been particularly critical of an FBI "intelligence bulletin" issued in October 2003 that urged local police to monitor antiwar protests and to "report any potentially illegal acts to the nearest FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force."

The ACLU also highlighted several specific cases across the country that have previously drawn condemnation from activist groups. They include subpoenas issued, and then withdrawn, in Des Moines in connection with an antiwar protest; a series of interviews conducted by federal and local authorities in connection with alleged threats on media organizations at the Democratic National Convention in Boston; and the discovery by peace activists in Fresno, Calif., that their group had been infiltrated by a member of the local sheriff's department.

Several cases have revolved around groups in Colorado, where the Denver Police Department agreed in a legal settlement last year to stop keeping "spy files" on protesters. The ACLU says some of those files were shared with the local JTTF and the FBI.

"The FBI has a history of being heavy-handed," said David Crawford, executive director of Rocky Mountain Animal Defense of Boulder, an organization whose name was among those shared with the federal terrorism task force because the Denver police had labeled it a "criminal extremist" group. "People are concerned that their name is going to end up on a list somewhere, all because they are participating in peaceful activities and exercising their free-speech rights."
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:36 pm

In case anyone is interested and speaking of the ACLU:

American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut
Job Announcement
Executive Director

The American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut (ACLU-CT) and the American Civil Liberties Union Foundation of Connecticut (ACLUF-CT) are seeking an Executive Director to carry out the challenging and diverse activities of the organization. The Executive Director is a spokesperson for civil liberties in CT and provides leadership and management for the staff and Board of Directors. The successful candidate will be a dynamic, pro-active, innovative and flexible leader.

The ACLU-CT is the 55-year old private, non-profit organization dedicated to defending and advancing civil liberties principles in Connecticut through advocacy, litigation, legislative activities, and public education programs.

The Executive Director will serve as the chief executive officer of the ACLU-CT, with primary responsibility for managing the organization’s day-to-day activities and operations, leading the organization’s fundraising, directing and coordinating the work of 5 professional staff, and serving as the primary spokesperson for the ACLU-CT.

Job Qualifications:

Applicants should have:
·At least 5 years management experience;
·Excellent communications skills including media relations and public speaking;
·Ability to effectively relate with diverse constituencies;
·Fiscal management skills;
·Personnel management skills;
·Experience in coalition building;
·Organization and fundraising experience;
·Strong interpersonal skills, positive attitude, and ability to motivate others;

Compensation: Salary is negotiable based on experience. Excellent benefits.

Application Procedure:
Please submit, preferably by email, a letter of interest, resume, and contact information for three references. Send to:

SearchACLUCT@aol.com

Barbara Hager, Chairperson
ACLU of Connecticut
174 Nearwater Lane
Darien, CT 06820

Applications will be accepted until January 14, 2005 or until the position is filled.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut is an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby barfle » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:58 pm

Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
Hey folks back off the ACLU a bit. There are some of us who are members and volunteer time with them... OK that's me.
I don't think anyone is attacking the ACLU so far, YRH.

All I did was show how their principles sometimes rub people the wrong way, not that there was anything wrong with those principles.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby barfle » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:01 pm

Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
In case anyone is interested and speaking of the ACLU:

American Civil Liberties Union of Connecticut
Job Announcement
Executive Director
Yeah, but you would have to live in
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Connecticut! :eek:

It gets cold enough here in Virginia.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:27 pm

Barfle, you misunderstand. I did not say attack. It was more that I felt we needed another view point... oh say from an actual member of the ACLU.

As for CT, this is a geat state! We're not so bad if you can get past the BMW's, the Yankees, income tax, richest state in the nation, lack of Wal Marts on every corner (that's a good thing), coffee shops, farms, day tripping, antique shopping on the weekend (yes, we really do that), really fast drivers, love of J Crew and LL Bean for some reason and yes the cold weather. But our summers are wonderful... if you like the humidity. ;)
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby barfle » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:44 pm

YRH, I've considered joining it myself (just not gotten around to it, like that extra $100 I was going to give to the Red Cross after all the hurricanes).

Before I started listening to you, Sir Stew, and John Nowacki, I had a job that required me to travel to Hahtfid three or four times a year (South Windsor, to be precise). Since I moved to VA, I've become more adept at driving through areas where you can't see more than 10 feet beyond the roadway because of all the trees. I would get so stinkin' lost around there that I started getting the service manager to drive me around (like he didn't have a regular job to do).

And when it comes to humidity, I'm afraid we got you beat. I'm a warm weather guy (visiting winter is OK, but when winter comes here, it overstays its welcome by 2½ months.

And I'm a junk, er, antique junkie myself!

<small>[ 12-03-2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: barfle ]</small>
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby RC » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:24 pm

You might also consider Southern Poverty Law.
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:49 pm

See barfle! You'd be perfect for CT! You like humidity and you've been here before.

I'm suprised you got lost. The saying around here is just keep driving if you get lost and you'll hit I84 or I95 at some point. Then all roads will lead you to either Hartford or New Haven. It just aways seems to work that way. The key is to think of CT in terms of Northwest/Southeast, Northeast and Southwest. Then it all seems to make sense. We live a twisted life around here.

How are VA winters your way? Are you south enough where it's not to cold?
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Re: Connecticut weather - Good or Bad?

Postby barfle » Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:17 pm

Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
See barfle! You'd be perfect for CT! You like humidity and you've been here before.
I didn't say I liked humidity, I said it was worse here! I lived in Southern California for 40+ years because of the generally dry, warm weather. Warm I like, muggy I don't.

Originally posted by HRH:
I'm suprised you got lost. The saying around here is just keep driving if you get lost and you'll hit I84 or I95 at some point. Then all roads will lead you to either Hartford or New Haven. It just aways seems to work that way. The key is to think of CT in terms of Northwest/Southeast, Northeast and Southwest. Then it all seems to make sense. We live a twisted life around here.
It is mostly due to the fact that one forest looks like the next one, unlike Southern California where 25 sagebrush bushes are considered a "forest."

Originally posted by HRH:
How are VA winters your way? Are you south enough where it's not to cold?
I've gone through three winters here, and they've all been different. In 2001-2002, we had one snowfall that melted in three days. In 2002-2003, we actually had a snow day in February after about three feet in one day. Last year the county didn't have the budget for plowing the streets in neighborhoods, so I'm really glad we have a 4x4, although the snow was only a foot deep or so. Temperatures get into the teens overnight, but what's worst is waiting for a bus on a 50MPH highway in that kind of weather. Sleet seems to be the state bird.

I guess we've pretty well done the Patriot act thing. So how do we change the name of threads?

<small>[ 12-06-2004, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: barfle ]</small>
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