USS George HW Bush CVN 77

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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby Lynne » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:26 am

Do you people have any idea how intimidating you all are??? Is there any subject you're unable to discuss intelligently? Is it that people who listen to classical music are just naturally smarter, or is it coincidence you found each other here?

Anyway, just wanted to let you all know how much I enjoy reading your posts. It adds a frisson of happiness to my working day. Someday I may even join in the discussion, when I know what the heck you're talking about. What days will you be discussing sex? ;-)
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:34 am

You're right, we need to discuss sex more frequently! :) I always thought we were eclectic and trivial.....

I, for one, am not so smart. After all, I had to have "Lawn Guyland" explained to me. I think I work on the Law of Posting Frequency. If I post prolifically, then 1 out of every 100 posts or so has some semblance of intellect, and that might be an optimistic estimate.

:D
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby barfle » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:37 am

Just as I go harping about one single-term President getting a ship named after him, now I find there's a submarine being named after Jimmy Carter.

A joke supposedly too hot for late-night TV: To honor the 39th president, the Navy will christen its next nuclear-powered submarine the U.S.S. Jimmy Carter. The sub is expected to fall apart in four years and take shots only at Israel.

Another editorial comment from the Washington Examiner (distributed free to DC metro riders and others): This Sunday, the U.S. Navy will commision the deadliest nuclear-powered attack submarine in the world: the U.S.S. Jimmy Carter. This is like naming our new tanks after the Maginot Line or a missile after Gandhi. Former President Carter has his virtueis, but naming a Seawolf attack sub after the author of Desert One is a joke.
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby Trumpetmaster » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:43 am

Shapely,
Great info!
Thanks,
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:52 am

I think a large part of the reasoning behind that is that Jimmy Carter was a [gwbpc] nucular [/gwbpc] officer.

I still forgive the man a lot because at least he had integrity.

[hijack] Were you aware he worked for the Iran hostage release right up until the morning of Reagan's inauguration, the last two days having forgone sleep so he could stay on top of the situation? I used to subscribe to the "October Surprise" Republican conspiracy theory, but have recently learned the facts. Jimmy Carter did indeed succeed at securing the hostage's release, but the timing of their release made it appear to be an accomplishment of Reagan's by the mere fact of his ascendancy to the throne.

Just as you dream of a society devoid of gummint control, I dream of a gummint staffed by honest people. Somehow, I don't think either of us will live to see our dreams come true. [/hijack]
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby piqaboo » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:04 pm

Originally posted by Lynne:
Do you people have any idea how intimidating you all are??? Is there any subject you're unable to discuss intelligently? Is it that people who listen to classical music are just naturally smarter, or is it coincidence you found each other here?
We gaXng I mean team up.
Some of us post on all topics, as OT described. But some of us only step in when and where they can be devastatingly effective, and there are a few of those types for every topic under the sun.
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby barfle » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:08 pm

I've often stated that I felt Jimmy Carter was the most honest and least competent President we've had since I started paying attention (probably LBJ).

I would love to have him as a neighbor, but not in a position where he would have to make tough decisions (like what to do about inflation and hostages taken by barbarians).
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:08 pm

Hi, OT,

I haven't had time to post much, so I just followed the link. I recognized the name of the Liberty, so I googled it to find the link. I recalled reading about the incident in the American Legion magazine a few years back.

I think it's approriate to name a nuclear submarine after Pres. Carter, because of his past service. I thought that there was ship named after FDR, but I can't find reference to it. I was thinking it was some sort of support ship, but I could be mistaken.

I think they should name a submarine after Pres. Clinton, because of the resemblance to a cigar. :o

I'll post more later, if time permits.

V/R
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:10 pm

Originally posted by Lynne:
Is there any subject you're unable to discuss intelligently?
Yes. Pork bellies. Don't know nuthin' about 'em.

:D
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:11 pm

RE: Carter,

I agree he is an excellent ex-president.

Too bad he wasn't an excellent president.

V/R
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<small>[ 02-17-2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby analog » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:23 pm

Carter inherited a country whose self esteem was wrecked. Too bad we cant replay history, skipping Oswald, Johnson and Nixon .

<small>[ 02-17-2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: analog ]</small>
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:52 pm

Thank you, Analog. There were a lot of factors contributing to Carter's ineffectiveness, if you will, as President, that were beyond his control. I feel it primarily was the fact of his taking office after the abuses and battering of government of the previous tens years leading up to his presidency. And, whether we want to acknowledge it or not, a lot of the fruits of his efforts didn't come to fruition until well into the Reagan presidency(a lot of which Reagan shamelessly took credit for).

It's too bad succeeding Presidents didn't follow his example of modesty when it came to inaugurations, ceremonies, and lifestyle in general. I am continually dismayed and disappointed by the trend of superficiality and wretched excess, by both sides of the aisle.
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby brkelm » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:32 pm

Already was a USS FDR. She was a carrier of the old Essex class CV-42. Commissioned right after WWII. Probably took a shave with it this morning. ;)

v/r

Brian

<small>[ 02-17-2005, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Seabee ]</small>
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby OperaTenor » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:05 pm

Hi Brian,

Thanks. I missed it when I checked the carrier list this morning.

Of course, that's assuming I've shaved today.

"Jim at Home"

:D
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:47 pm

OT,

In answer to your earlier inquiry: No, I wasn't aware that a new carrier was commissioned, or that it was named after GHWB. Nothing on the site would indicate that it will look significanlty different from the Reagan, which doesn't look significantly different from the Nimitz. I can't imagine that there have been sufficient improvements in electronics, nor that the Navy will have adopted them if there are, for them to eliminate the mass of antenae and radar domes that comprise the skyline of a typical carrier. I think the artist's conception is just that, a conception, not based in reality.

I have no problem with naming a carrier after GHWB, especially because of his position of command during Gulf War I. It seems logical, especially with a Republican Congress and the ex-Presidents son in office. What better way for the Navy to win approval for construction than by naming it so.

Just so you not think its a new form of brownnosing, remember that the Carl Vinson was named after one of Congress' most respected Democratic members primarily in order to win approval for its construction from a then Democrat-controlled congress.

V/R
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby Shapley » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:01 pm

OT,

RE: USS Liberty

If you read accounts of the incident, it is reported that the ship radioed in that they were under fire, and requested assistance. Fighter jets were scrambled from the USS Saratoga and USS America in response, but were recalled. The recall was reported to have come directly from Robert McNamara, on direct orders from President Johnson.

It is my understanding that McNamara later denied issuing the recall.

Here is another account of the incident:

http://69.28.73.17/documentaries.html

I'm not sure if the website has any connection to the first one posted.

V/R
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby haggis » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:45 pm

” I still forgive the man a lot because at least he had integrity.”

” I've often stated that I felt Jimmy Carter was the most honest and least competent President we've had since I started paying attention (probably LBJ).”

“I agree he is an excellent ex-president.


I think he was an abysmal president and remain an even worse ex-president (and I voted for him!)

His history is a sorry one: he started out as a Midshipman and served honorably in the Navy. But at some point, his leftist politics took hold and he started aligning himself with America's enemies.

The turning point, I think, came here:

”Soviet diplomatic accounts and material from the archives show that in January 1984 former President Jimmy Carter dropped by Soviet Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin's residence for a private meeting.

Carter expressed his concern about and opposition to Reagan's defense buildup. He boldly told Dobrynin that Moscow would be better off with someone else in the White House. If Reagan won, he warned, "There would not be a single agreement on arms control, especially on nuclear arms, as long as Reagan remained in power."

Using the Russians to influence the presidential election was nothing new for Carter.

Schweizer reveals Russian documents that show that in the waning days of the 1980 campaign, the Carter White House dispatched businessman Armand Hammer to the Soviet Embassy.

Hammer was a longtime Soviet-phile, and he explained to the Soviet ambassador that Carter was "clearly alarmed" at the prospect of losing to Reagan.

Hammer pleaded with the Russians for help. He asked if the Kremlin could expand Jewish emigration to bolster Carter's standing in the polls.

"Carter won't forget that service if he is elected," Hammer told Dobrynin.


Conspiring with our chief enemy to try to influence an American Presidential election: I could call that treason, you can form your own opinion.

In more recent years, Carter has never met an anti-American dictator he didn't like. Whether it was Castro, Ortega, Arafat...whoever. And he used the occasion of being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize to attack the current American government...just as those who awarded the prize had expected. No class.

And most recently, of course, he invited the execrable Michael Moore to sit with him in the former President's box at the Democratic National Convention.

Carter's public embrace of Moore can only be seen as an endorsement of his views. In my opinion that puts Carter squarely "on the other side."

Jimmy Carter is a disgrace. If you want to learn more, read Steven Hayward's book The Real Jimmy Carter.

Here is a brief excerpt from an interview with Mr. Hayward about the President:

”Carter panted after the Nobel Peace Prize for years, seeing it as a means of gaining official redemption for his humiliation at the hands of the voters in 1980. He lobbied quietly behind the scenes for years to get the prize, and finally met with success in 2002 when the left-wing Nobel Prize committee saw an opportunity to use Carter as a way of attacking President Bush and embarrassing the United States. The head of the Nobel Prize committee openly admitted that this was their motivation in selecting Carter. Any other ex-president would have refused to be a part of such an obvious anti-American intrigue, but not Jimmy. Here we should observe that Carter conceives himself much more as a citizen of the world than as a citizen of the United States, and I think it is highly revealing that Carter is most popular overseas in those nations that hate America the most, such as Syria, where they lined the streets cheering for Carter when he visited."

In my view, Carter owes the American people an apology for the actions cited above, and others. Carter, it seems to me, subscribes to the view that America is, and generally has been, more a force for evil in the world than a force for good.

Accordingly, he believes, I think, that the world would be a better place if the U.S. were weaker militarily and less influential. Carter also holds our enemies in higher regard than he holds our friends, particularly in the Middle East. And, he is particularly fond of anti-American dictators and, at times, has actively assisted such dictators to our detriment.

I'm not sure whether all of this places Carter "on the other side," but it's difficult to understand in what sense he's on our side.
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby haggis » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:51 pm

The Skipper of the U.S.S. Liberty was awarded the Medal of Honor.

It was the first award of the medal in modern history where the president didn't award it, the Secretary of the Navy did in a little known about ceremony at the Washington Naval Yard,

Shameful
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby haggis » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:56 pm

This sums his presidentcy up nicely

<img src="http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/Cartoons/02-16-2005.gif" alt=" - " />
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Re: USS George HW Bush CVN 77

Postby shostakovich » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:03 pm

Assuming Carter did sit down with Dobrynin to bitch about Reagan, I don't see what the Soviets could have done (a conspiracy, yet?) to affect the election. If Carter is a peacenik who was willing to work with other leaders, I don't find that so terrible. Wasn't the Begin-Sadat peace accord done at the behest of Carter? That seemed like a good thing.

If there had been more Carters and fewer Reagans and Bushes, we and the rest of the world might have been more in accord now. The tremendous build-up of the pentagon and the military budgets has gotten a large part of the world on edge, justifiably.

While I'd be the first to say speculation on what might have been is a pointless exercise, it was a way of sticking up for the last president I thought had real "family values". Carter was certainly the Anti-Bush, and I gotta love him for that.
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