Immigrant Tracking bracelet

[piqaboo]

immigrants or illegal immigrants. Lets please at least make sure we are talking about the same group.

Q - NM, how do the illegal immigrant PR's come into the US? Somehow, I doubt they swim. Do they come in legally and overstay their permits? Go legally to Canada and sneak across that border? Other? Im curious.

The Mex border states get illegal asian immigrants alla kinda ways, including over the Mex border. Some of them went to Mex legally, and some did not (horrifying stories of folks packed into containers on decks of ships, coming from China).

[Nicole Marie]

Yeah Piq, I'm talking illegal. Since Puerto Rico is a territory of the US it's very easy for folks to visit the US and over stay. Many people first lived in NYC and moved to CT in hopes of a better life. Many people have family already here and say they are visiting but never leave. People will establish a life, have children and once you have a child in the US it's hard to send someone back. That's why the mayor is starting programs, to at least, make people productive members of the area instead of living off city services. The issue of legal or not is not really being touched by the city governments, they seem to be more focused on getting people to stop abusing the city services and we've seen an increase of programs designed for that... which I'm all for but I'd like to see someone raise the illegal issue too.

[OperaTenor]

I'm still waiting to hear just how we would "strengthen" or "improve" our borders?

Do we station INS agents shoulder-to-shoulder? Start shooting illegals as they're crossing or when we catch them?

We can blue sky about it and speak in what my high school English teacher referred to as "glittering generalities", but unless someone tells me just how we implement it, I have a hard time hearing about it as a solution.



To me, since it's a whole country, U.S. citizen or no issue, I think it's the federal government's repsonsibility primarily to address it.

[Nicole Marie]

In other news...

Does anyone watch Lou Dobbs on CNN (6PM EST) every day he does a great job at highlighting the illegal issue. And reams the government for the poor job they have done. Right now he has Rep Steve King who sits on the Immigration Subcommittee and is chatting about how Naturalization ceremonies are being held in other languages other than English. (The law says to be a citizen you have to have to speak/understand English. So the law is being broken by our own government. There's a shocker.)

<small>[ 03-08-2005, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
Rep Steve King

So, he entered politics after writing all those horror novels?!!

[lioness]

did you know you can take your USA drivers liscense test in Spanish (and a few other languages i can't recall at the moment)?!

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by lioness:
did you know you can take your USA drivers liscense test in Spanish (and a few other languages i can't recall at the moment)?!

USA drivers test?

Well, you can get the California one in English, Spanish, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Japanese, several dialects of Chinese, Thai, something written in arabic characters, and translators for other languages are available, if you make the appointment.

You are required to demonstrate competence with the signs and signals, which are non-language-specific.

Ballots likewise multilingual. Not to mention the phone bill.

[OperaTenor]

I've got it!!!!

We'll set up a "citizens only" force field around the perimeter of the entire U.S.! Only U.S. citizens and those legal immigrants/aliens who have been given the supersecret password, "Haggis Sesame" will be allowed through. All others will be vaporized on contact with the force field
English language proficiency will be established by having all foreigners attempt to read aloud the phrase, "You want fries with that?"

:eureka:

<small>[ 03-08-2005, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

You realize my great-grandmother Selma will be visiting you in your sleep tonight, probably accompanied by several of your dead relatives. You forgot the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] markers.

BTW, I'm sending mormormor because she's the immigrant. She may bring her ferocious daughter, my mormor, with her and they'll give you several pieces of their sarcastic Swedish minds to fill in the blank spaces. In multiple languages.

Force field my achin' elbow. We're into privatization, my man, it's being contracted to a fine old Italian family firm with masses of experience in borders and smuggling.

Oh, did I forget the sarcasm markers? My bad.

[Serenity]

Mexico's Foreign Ministry has a 32 page comic guide with advice to citizens on surviving the hazards of the trip across the border into the U.S. Examples: Where to swim across the Rio Grande; Wear light clothing becomes heavier clothing makes swimming or floating difficult; add salt to fresh water to avoid dehydration; walk during times of low heat, etc.
This was in http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4152307.stm

<small>[ 03-08-2005, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Serenity ]</small>

[Serenity]

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:

Well, you can get the California one in English, Spanish, Tagalog, Vietnamese, Japanese, several dialects of Chinese, Thai, something written in arabic characters, and translators for other languages are available, if you make the appointment.

You are required to demonstrate competence with the signs and signals, which are non-language-specific.

Ballots likewise multilingual. Not to mention the phone bill. [/QB]

How does a policeman proceed when they're handed a license they can't read from a driver who doesn't speak English?

I know there is voice recognition software and text translation software....Someday they will have those speech translation thingies I've seen on Star Trek...

<small>[ 03-08-2005, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Serenity ]</small>

[lioness]

Originally posted by piqaboo:
immigrants or illegal immigrants.

current US population: 294 million
immigrants entering the US this year: 1.1 million
Census estimate in 2050 from mass immigration: 420 million

Mass immigration—legal and illegal—is having an huge impact on every matter that is of concern to the American public (ie: homeland security, jobs and wages, education, health care).

then there's always the fact that Illegal Immigration is a Crime.

WHAT CAN WE DO?
ensure that people who enter illegally or overstay their lawful status will not be able to obtain employment, public assistance benefits, public education, public housing, or any other taxpayer-funded benefit without detection.

The three major components of immigration control--deterrence, apprehension and removal--need to be strengthened by Congress and the Executive Branch.

[lioness]

in 1994, the INS introduced the Phoenix Plan. this was supposed to inform employers they have illegal aliens on the payroll by reviewing the I-9 documents.

the INS answer to doing it 'cost effectively' was to give the employer the opportunity to fire them and this would force illegal aliens to go home when they lose their job. [breakdown #1]

the problem? these illegals still have the fake documents they initially used to get the first job. they just go to another place to get another illegal job.[breakdown #2]

fining companies doesn't seems to work. out of 15,000 cases, the INS imposed fines in only 3,765 of these cases. that's only 1/4.
the amount of the fines was $34.5 million, but only $14.5 million was ever collected.

*out of the 10 largest fines assessed by the INS up through 1994, five ended up negotiated down to zero and the other five were reduced substantially.

the federal government needs to take the responsibility for verifying which aliens are legally here and able to take jobs. this removes the idea of single employmer discrimination.

Congress needs to adopt this as a national mandatory program.

i can't help but wonder... what happens when Congress feels enough public pressure? will it actually result in action?


*The Orange County Register, August 30, 1998

[Trumpetmaster]

Sorry if I offended anyone yesterday.
This is a sensitive issue with me.

I'm tired of working MAO and watching people come here illegally and get Free Services.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm OK if there are people out there, legal immigrants and U.S. Citizens who truly need the help until they can get back on their feet.

It is the people abusing the system that pisses me off. This INCLUDES EMPLOYERS AND GOVERNMENT who continue to let this go on who I am extremely disappointed in.

There has to be a better way to do this than the way it is being done today.

TM

[lioness]

Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:
Sorry if I offended anyone yesterday.
This is a sensitive issue with me.
TM

TM, as long as it's demonstrated with truth and respect, there's nothing wrong with posting how we perceive a situation.

i'm sure each of us can find that debatable subject that rakes our personal emotions.

[OperaTenor]

No problem, TM. If we all didn't express our opinions, this board would be a borrrrrring place.

It's a pretty sensitive issue with me, and from my perspective, it seems that the people who are really running things must want to perpetuate illegal immigration, because meaningful solutions are relatively simple and cost effective. My pet theory is they want the cheap labor. The thing that really burns my butt about it is the amount of tax money BLOWN on this political grandstanding they call border security. It really is nothing more than a display put on to placate the masses at the taxpayer's expense.

Let's look at it this way: If you didn't get paid, what's the point of working your a$$ off at your job? Why bother even going in? We remove the incentive(the work, the benefits), and they'll stop coming.

What I'm asking is: You say you'd like to see our borders"improved"; How? From my perspective(again), our border security is tight to the point where the next step is to start shooting border crossers, andTHEY STILL CROSS BY THE HUNDREDS EVERY DAY. So, how ya gonna do it?

Now, if you want a sense of how offensive it can get here, go read the "Kindness Defecit" thread. I don't think the flames there are out yet.



Jim "puerile" B.

<small>[ 03-09-2005, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

I still think the illegal immigration issue is being handled bass-ackwards. Pragmatism, folks. The whole deterrence/deportation approach is not working. It's expensive. It doesn't work. Mexico will never assist in the effort because Mexico benefits greatly from the U$ dollars sent home by the folks working in the U$.

Back to the card table approach. Issue tax ID numbers and green cards for a reasonable fee. Use the fees to fund expansion of the already existing criminal identification computerized systems. Remove the criminals from the immigrant stream. Invite the AFL/CIO to set up card tables alongside the INS ones, to explain about minimum wage laws.

If the newly greencarded workers are (a) unafraid of being deported and (b) aware of minimum wage laws, don't you suppose the off-the-books jobs might dry up? If the new guys are also paying taxes on their earnings, won't that help with the affront many citizens feel about their use of public services?

On the public services note, I'd like to point out that a lot of the public services are handled at a state level or below. If your state laws are causing you problems, it's time to start bugging your state legislators to change them. One should also note that only citizens vote...

[OperaTenor]

Hi Selma,

I like that approach. Hadn't looked at it from that perspective. Simple, and has tendencies of self-support.

[dai bread]

This thread makes me glad we have a 2000km-wide moat around this country.

The Aussies take a very hard line with illegal immigrants, which they used to get by the boatload, via Indonesia. Indonesia is a Muslim country, but Muslim illegals from Iran Iraq and afghanistan don't want to stay there. They want to go to Christian Australia.

The illegals are put into camps in the outback of Australia (and there's not much more remote & uncomfortable than that) and their applications are processed VERY slowly. I haven't heard of a boatload arriving for some time. Not since the "Tampa" affair really.

We're much softer, but then most of our illegals come from the Polynesian islands, and are therefore some sort of kith & kin. Occasionally comments are made that their health care etc. should be funded from the foreign aid budget, but so far it hasn't been.

The answer to illegal immigration is to improve the economy at home. Not easy, of course, but there's no other real answer.

Oh yes, I forgot about the bracelet. We use those to "monitor" convicts granted "home detention" by our kind and generous judges. The bracelets are not set up for GPS monitoring, so we were informed when one of the convicts just walked out of his house & disappeared. As far as I'm aware, he's still on the loose.

<small>[ 03-10-2005, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: dai bread ]</small>

[Serenity]

There must be European countries with immigration problems also. I'm sure we don't have the highest standard of living or the best educational system. I know we lag far behind on vacation time. There must be an immigration system we can learn from to help shed a new perspective on our woes.

<small>[ 03-10-2005, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Serenity ]</small>