Immigrant Tracking bracelet

[Marye]

Originally posted by dai bread:
Oh yes, I forgot about the bracelet. We use those to "monitor" convicts granted "home detention" by our kind and generous judges. The bracelets are not set up for GPS monitoring, so we were informed when one of the convicts just walked out of his house & disappeared. As far as I'm aware, he's still on the loose.

Hmm, the bracelet, like Martha is wearing these days. I suspect many long for her to disappear in much the same fashion.

[lioness]

our legal system does the anklet thing out here... and they are NOT cheap. i believe it's $18/day.
that's $540/month and $3200 for a 6 month sentence.

i wonder if these new immigrant anklets will cost around the same. are the ankleted going to pay for this or will it be our tax $$'s?

[Nicole Marie]

Serenity, yes European countries are having similar problems. Germany is having a terrible time with Middle East countries. Portugal is having a tough time with African countries and Brazil. Many Brazilians went to Portugal for the World Cup, and have over stayed. The country has seen a sharp rise in crime rates after the World Cup from the folks that over stayed (mainly Brazilians). They are being deported once found. Portugal is also a strategic spot for drug trafficking, child trafficking and terror issues between Europe and Africa. Portugal has very strict punishments once they are caught but people are still getting into the country. The EU just gave a ton of money to Portugal to fix some of these issues. I'm sure other countries in Europe are having similar problems.

I remember reading a few years ago that illegals who made it into Europe were heading for England. England's rules are a bit more relaxed compared to other countries, so it was a desirable place to be. To get into England people were walking through the tunnel between France and England, it's called the Channel Tunnel. You need ID, passport etc to board the trains so if you are illegal and had no ID, several people decided to walk through the Channel Tunnel! The media picked up on it when people started to die while attempting to walk through. There are three tunnels, two for trains and one for maintance/security only. People were trying to walk through the train tunnels!! The train takes three hours to pass through so just imagine the time to walk it, of course a train can not avoid someone walking the tracks... They have since developed stronger security around the tunnel in both France and England.

[barfle]

Did you think I could see this topic and not chime in?

The reason illegals come here is because they can do better here than at home. That includes working for less than the legal minimum wage. Employers just love hard workers who don't draw much salary, and the workers are doing better than they would at home.

I am incensed at the way some bozos like California's ex-governor lowbeam (How did his parents know that "Gray" would be such an appropriate name?) want to extend no end of government benefits to illegals, like allowing them to have driver's licenses. Check out the "kindness deficit" thread.

The underground economy exists, and since it pays little or no taxes, it is a drain on public welfare (whether or not public welfare should exist is a whole 'nuther kettle of fish - see "kindness deficit" thread). A lot of people don't want to get rid of handouts, including those paying the costs, and I understand the pangs of conscience when someone has to turn down someone who is truly in need because of their legal status, but if we want to get rid of that loud sucking sound drawing the indigent across our borders, that's exactly what we're going to have to do.

[OperaTenor]

Hi Barfle,

Don't you think that actually punishing the employers who hire illegals would have a deterrent effect?

[dai bread]

At the time Australia was refusing entry to the several hundred illegals who had been picked up by the Norwegian freighter "Tampa", (their original boat sank) all manner of self-righteous comments were coming out of Europe, universally condemning the Aussies. Not least from Norway, safely behind about 20 000km of ocean.

As a result, our press ran several lengthy articles about the immigrant problems in Europe. They were enlightening. Britain, France, Sweden, Germany and Holland all have severe problems. Britain seems to be the preferred destination.

It is noteworthy that none of the Europeans condemning Australia, not even the sanctimonious Norwegians, offered to take any of the boat people. That was left to us.

[Serenity]

But who is immigrating where? Colonies going back to but the homeland? Everyone I know wants to retire in Florida or Arizona; others Mexico because it supposedly cheaper than in the US. I've never heard of anyone wanting to retire England, Germany, France, Italy, etc. Where would you emigrate to escape immigration?

[barfle]

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Hi Barfle,

Don't you think that actually punishing the employers who hire illegals would have a deterrent effect?

I suppose it would, but it would still boil down to a business decision. Is it cheaper to hire illegals for less than legal residents and pay the fine than it is to hire only legals at legal wages?

Actually, the hiring of illegals cheaply doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the bleeding hearts who want to turn over the country to everyone but those who were born here. I recall a law in California stating that English was the language that all government business was going to be conducted in, yet I also recall DMV tests and pamphlets in more languages than I could recognize.

A semi-personal experience: My wife used to work for a company that assigned non-medical health-care providers for people who were unable to care for themselves. They would help them dress, bathe, go to the toilet, etc. Most of the people who they assigned (all were "independent contractors," not employees) were immigrants, many from Africa. It occurred to her one day that when she would call one person on the list, that one of three different people would show up. All three were using the same store-bought green card and SS card. She called DHS, and they couldn't have cared less.

So much for enforcement of existing laws.

Bureaucrats - can the lot of 'em. No, wait, I'm one of 'em.

[lioness]

Originally posted by Selma in Sandy Eggo:
If the newly greencarded workers are (a) unafraid of being deported and (b) aware of minimum wage laws, don't you suppose the off-the-books jobs might dry up? If the new guys are also paying taxes on their earnings, won't that help with the affront many citizens feel about their use of public services?

i finally had the chance to go back and truly read this thread again.

i can't help but say.... BRAVO!!
Selma that is a wonderful suggestion!!

[dai bread]

Originally posted by Serenity:
But who is immigrating where? Colonies going back to but the homeland? Everyone I know wants to retire in Florida or Arizona; others Mexico because it supposedly cheaper than in the US. I've never heard of anyone wanting to retire England, Germany, France, Italy, etc. Where would you emigrate to escape immigration?

I"ve heard of quite a number of Brits retiring to France, & some to Italy (Tuscany I think). I've never heard of anyone retiring to Britain other than expatriates. NZers don't retire outside the country unless they have family somewhere, as the Pacific Islanders do. Mind you, as coastal & lakeside land rockets in price, we may have to reconsider.

[Serenity]

If it's any consolation I'd consider traveling to NZ to consider retiring in the land where Lord of the Rings was filmed....truly beautiful scenery!

[OperaTenor]

Hi Barfle,

That's the problem. Penalties for employers hiring illegals are positively flaccid! It is cheaper for them to employ illegals and get caught than to hire legal employees and pay them IAW the law, not to mention pay the taxes they're supposed to be paying on their employees. The way the system works, they're allowed to not only take advantage of cheap. illegal labor, but they skate out of paying their required taxes.

So we as taxpayers not only foot the bill for social services, but we make up for the shortfall caused by employers skating on their payroll taxes.

It's bass ackwards.

Selma, do you think we can find a sympathetic ear for your ideas in one of our elected representatives?

[Serenity]

I'm thinking of Planet of the Apes. There were "scarecrows" at the edge of the "Forbidden Zone". Can we have dummy-crucified, hispanic-looking scarecrows at the border crossing? How about sticks with shrunken human voodoo heads dangling off posts like Teriyaki sticks?

[nytehawk]

Puerto Ricans are native born Americans. College educated, high tax paying 5th generation Puerto Rican American here. WE ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS.

Aurea Andino

[lioness]

welcome nytehawk!
you're from my old stretch of the east.

please come post some more. that's why we're all here, right?
interested in what your side of the coin is... since there are 3 sides to every.

[Serenity]

Bienvenido Vato!

[nytehawk]

Third side? Well, I find it ironic that we use our fancy, expensive, electronic toys to decry our unfortunate state of under employment, lack of funds, or competition from other workers. On my part of the planet you work for what you need or want. Need more? Work more! Want a better life? Get an education which means more work and more sweat and when you drop from exhaustion you get up and work harder. Any job is a good job if its legal. Flip burgers, mop floors, wash toilets, tutor morons, but do what you need to do to get to where you want to go. The American Dream isn't handed out for free and there are no entitlements given with birth certificates. My brothers and sisters bled for it as did the people who came through Ellis Island or anyone else who reached these shores by their own will or in chains. Those already here fought for it. No one got anything for nothing. What are we afraid of? All it takes is sweat. Do you have a dream? Work for it. Hey, you want to get to Carnegie Hall? Practice for heaven's sake. That's what we Americans do. It's what we've always done. As far as I'm concerned anybody with the initiative to arrive at out door to work, to help build the nation, to defend the constitution, to better themselves, and educate their kids is welcome. We keep a big statue of a Lady with a lamp which is always lit so those who want to come can find their way here. We New Yorkers are the keepers of the Golden Door and we will do whatever it takes to make sure the door stays open to all those of good will. Liberty means a lot here. It is a word to live by and defend.

Aurea Andino
NYC

[lioness]

ok, i was going to bed.

Third side?
yeah, 3 sides. heads, tails & the outer edging. sorta goes along with the whole idea of perception and interpreting the stories we see day to day.

Any job is a good job if its legal.
yes. legal is the prime word here. i believe this is one of the two main issues. there are many people that come here illegally with a low educational attainment and very few skills. however, because they will work for low wages employers are more prone to hire them. many times it's in the underground economy where they don't pay a dime of taxes on any earnings. it may be profitable for employers, but it extremely costly to the American taxpayer.

The American Dream isn't handed out for free and there are no entitlements given with birth certificates. No one got anything for nothing.
there are many people that have come to this country, sat at home and mooched off the system because they know that it can be done. if we were ALL entitled to this 'free' money or the available 'free' benefits that are given to immigrants, the public opinion might not feel this singe of frustration and unfairness towards the system.

We keep a big statue of a Lady with a lamp which is always lit so those who want to come can find their way here.
man, i miss home sometimes.

NOW it's bedtime.
pleasant nightmares to all.

[piqaboo]

Didn't we recently dim that lady's lamp, so she wouldnt provide targeting for terrorists? man, I hope my memories wrong on that one!>

originally posted by lioness
The American Dream isn't handed out for free and there are no entitlements given with birth certificates. No one got anything for nothing.
there are many people that have come to this country, sat at home and mooched off the system because they know that it can be done. if we were ALL entitled to this 'free' money or the available 'free' benefits that are given to immigrants, the public opinion might not feel this singe of frustration and unfairness towards the system

Ehctually, my deah friend.....
They do have to sit in line at social services for endless hours. That could be considered "work", I suppose <sarky icon>.

Slight change of direction - I know someone going thru the whole public assistance thing right now, and Im fascinated/disturbed by some aspects. My friend has had to spend hours and hours on the phone every few weeks to establish and continue benefits. She is only hired for the kind of jobs (legal ones) where you dont have permission to make personal calls all day long during business hours (retail, temping, machine shop). Which pointed it up to me that the system makes it darn hard on those who really are slipping thru the cracks and need it most (working but cant currently afford med insurance for example), where its much easier on folks who just dont try to make it on their own, and who do just stay home and work the system. My friend has had to turn down several temp jobs to be free to spend the day on the phone or at the SS office, because she cant afford not tohave the med coverage, even tho she's trying to get a job so she wont need the med coverage. <OT, Shap, this was NOT an invitation to get started again :p >

Hey Nytehawk, welcome. I'm a first generation immigrant myself.

[Trumpetmaster]

Quote from Lioness:

"many times it's in the underground economy where they don't pay a dime of taxes on any earnings. it may be profitable for employers, but it extremely costly to the American taxpayer"

Exactly my point. I have nothing against those who come here legally and bust their tails to make something of themselves.
What I protest against is that fact that my hard earned dollars are going to support the illegals who are working off the books jobs and then sponging off welfare and getting free medical to go to an Emergency Room when they have a hangnail.

TM