paying for automatic admission

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paying for automatic admission

Postby cryout_yea » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:28 am

Before I head on with this topic~ I would like to comment on that I have visited beethoven.com in a very~very long time. And I would like to say, wow, this bulletin board seems to have grown pretty much!

I am not sure if anyone remembers me, but I am glad to see some familiar names on the board.

Ok, back to the topic, as a Korean, (yes I am a South Korean) where paying for automatic admission is illegal, I would like to find out how people around the world feel about this system.

Is the admission of poorly prepared, but wealthy students to Universities appropriate or is it inappropriate?
Paying for automatic admission has been discussed as one way of improving the financial situation of universities. Many people are against the idea on the grounds that it would ruin fair competition. They say that the policy would violate the principle of providing equal opportunities to all students.
Allowing wealthy parents to pay for a son or daughter's admission to university, however, might not be such a bad idea. The donated funds could be used to improve the school facilities, which would benefit all students. The funds could also be used to provide scholarships for the poor and build laboratories for research.

Is the system perfectly legal in the US? and what do you think of this system?
Last edited by cryout_yea on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shapley » Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:41 am

cryout_yea,

Welcome back to the B.com BB!

I'm not familiar with automatic admission, having been out of school for a long, long, long, time.

However, here is a link to the University of North Dakota's admissions page, with their criteria for automatic admission.

Here in America we have both private of public universities, with different admissions criteria for each, so I would expect the standards to differ significantly, not only from State to State, but from school to school.

V/R
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Postby shostakovich » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:37 pm

Automatic admission is fine if it does not prevent a more qualified student from being accepted. What I would object to is extra consideration for the wealthy after the first year.
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Postby dai bread » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:25 am

To get automatic admission to University here, you have to be over 25 and a NZ citizen, or (possibly) have residency.

Otherwise you have pass various criteria and, if you're not a citizen, or don't at least have residency, you pay heaps.

The criteria are examination passes at the appropriate level (various overseas exams are recognised) and a score in International English Testing (IELTS) of at least 6.5 out of 10 if English (or American) isn't your native language.

Once in, you're expected to work. No punches are pulled on account of wealth, race or anything else. This upsets our Chinese brethren occasionally. They think that the heaps they pay entitle them to a degree. It doesn't work that way. As a result, there's a thriving trade in fake degrees.

Last I heard, you had to pass in 2 subjects a year to be allowed to stay on. I don't know what the current criteria are. It's all papers & semesters now.
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Postby ha3joo3y » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:57 am

think about it this way

money=power
so as long as you have the money, you have the power to buy your children into harvard or whereveer
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Postby GreatCarouser » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:02 pm

The patient is critical. You can take them to the best hospital money can buy, get the best surgeon money can buy, etc. etc. There is still no guarantee the operation will be successful.

One of the greatest problems educators face today is the amount of time that can be devoted to an individual. As class sizes increase the amount of time is reduced. Students are forced to 'get it', get help from peers or other sources, or fail. No parent wants to hear 'but I have 30 other....' even though that is the reality of the situation. I'm rather amazed at parents who expect a teacher to spend extra, unpaid time with their students (many do so voluntarily) yet would be outraged at a similar request from one of their 'customers' for their services under the same conditions. Often said parents haven't the 'time' (read inclination) to help the child themselves, but I'm starting to rant off topic here, so....


Most universities that I'm aware of who allow 'automatic admission' are state universities rather than privately funded institutions like Harvard or Yale. The state schools are mandated by their legislatures to admit citizens of the state for lower cost and often lower (slightly) academic standards than out of state applicants. State universities are now attempting to defray rising education costs by setting up education trust accounts for future students that guarantee admission if certain academic criteria are achieved and the account is paid by a certain date. I know the University fo Florida has this system in place. I'm not sure about California schools because I have no 'future candidates' of my own so haven't been hunting.

I'm not sure these programs are an exact 'fit' for your question, cryout_yea . I assume you are speaking of someone buying admittance to an institution and that is the free enterprise system at work and legal here. Each school has certain criteria that must be met and then it's can you afford it; if so welcome to.....
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:10 pm

ha3joo3y wrote:think about it this way

money=power
so as long as you have the money, you have the power to buy your children into harvard or whereveer

Absolutely true. A large enough bribe will get any moron into any school. In the case of identifiable morons, the bribe will have to be huge and might have to be disguised as an endowment.

After the endowed student is in school, however, they will have to attend the classes, do the work, and learn the material. If they don't, there will be flunking out and wailing and tooth-gnashing in rent garments.

The other option is for the endowed idiot to engage in prohibited practices, pay other students to attend the classes, do the work, write the papers. I suppose even the tests could be faked. However, if the engagement in cheating and chicanery is exposed publicly, the school loses prestige, standing, and possibly accreditation - which negatively affects their ability to collect future endowments from parents of morons. So, the chicanery is heavily discouraged in all but the sleaziest schools. If caught cheating, the idiot will be booted from campus and we're back to the wailing and tooth-gnashing and rent garments.

The third possibility is the careful selection of a major, such as Organic Fiber Containment Vessel Design and Construction. This allows the idiot to take classes and learn skills appropriate to the idiot's natural gifts and it'll work out really well as long as nobody realizes that the idiot is a trained basket weaver. Of course, that might not be all bad. If I were a trained basket weaver, I wouldn't have to buy baskets like I do now!
>^..^<
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Postby Serenity » Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:45 pm

I've heard of people just flat out buying a diploma without even going to school. :twisted:
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:21 pm

Serenity wrote:I've heard of people just flat out buying a diploma without even going to school. :twisted:

I think that would fall under "chicanery" and "sleazy school". I've seen those internet ads for guaranteed diplomas and thought about ordering one. Doctor of Crankiness, perhaps?
>^..^<
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Postby Serenity » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:39 pm

Is that lucrative? :wink:
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Postby BigJon@Work » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:10 am

Whatever happened to the Gentleman's C?
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:17 am

BigJon@Work wrote:Whatever happened to the Gentleman's C?

That's now part of the basketweaving etc. major, I think. Besides, what Gentleman would be satisfied with a lousy C?
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Postby BigJon@Work » Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:42 am

Only the finest Gentleman from the best families.

ed - why isn't it familys?
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Postby barfle » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:06 pm

It's been a while since I tried to get into a university, too, so my experience may not apply.

I am at the leading edge of the baby boom, so lots of schools were simply overwhelmed by applications when I was trying to get into college. My father's school, the University of Michigan, had a program that gave children of alumni some additional consideration, but apparently I needed more of something to get in there.

The University of California, in all its various campuses, had preferred admission for residents of California, which I was, but apparently I also needed more of something to get in there, too.

I ended up spending my first freshman year at Washington State University, which was a total disaster. Lots of excuses, a few reasons, but the fact remains we parted ways by mutual agreement.

Now for my opinion - any private institution can set any admission criteria they choose. Graduation criteria tends to be set by accrediting organizations, which give some credence to the fact that your degree means you actually passed the requisite classes and learned something while you were there. I can certainly see where a college would charge a premium for students with poor qualifications, since they would require more attention in order to graduate. Whether or not this occurs in practice is another story.

And let's not forget those athletic "scholarships."
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Postby piqaboo » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:51 pm

ha3joo3y,
welcome to "the Pit"!
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Postby Jeff Dutton » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:09 pm

Selma in Sandy Eggo wrote:The third possibility is the careful selection of a major, such as Organic Fiber Containment Vessel Design and Construction. This allows the idiot to take classes and learn skills appropriate to the idiot's natural gifts and it'll work out really well as long as nobody realizes that the idiot is a trained basket weaver. Of course, that might not be all bad. If I were a trained basket weaver, I wouldn't have to buy baskets like I do now!


Actually, the most popular major at my school was Sub-aquatic Architecture Using Miniature Metallic Spheres.
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