Northwest Flight 253

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Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:06 pm

More good news on the terrorism front, this time from ABC’s Brian Ross, who reports that Umar Abdulmutallab says “more like me” will be coming to the US. Al-Qaeda has launched a new offensive against the US using the international air travel system, and that the US has not completely grasped the significance of the attack on Christmas Day. The British seem to have a better handle on it:

American officials have cause to worry there may be more al Qaeda-trained young men in Yemen planning to bring down American jets.
Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, charged with the attempted Christmas Day bombing of Northwest Airlines flight 253, told FBI agents there were more just like him in Yemen who would strike soon.

And in a tape released four days before the attempted destruction of the Detroit-bound Northwest plane, the leader of al Qaeda in Yemen boasted of what was planned for Americans, saying, “We are carrying a bomb to hit the enemies of God.”


The next time, we won’t have the good fortune to have a faulty detonator. AQ missed a chance with NW253, but they now have time to refine their system to work more efficiently. They only have to get it right once, while we have to get it right every single time. We got lucky on Christmas, but that’s all it was — luck.

That’s why Joe Lieberman demanded pre-emptive action against AQ strongholds in Yemen:

e Lieberman (I-Conn.) Sunday said that Yemen could be the ground of America’s next overseas war if Washington does not take preemptive action to root out al-Qaeda interests there.
Lieberman, who helms the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, said on “Fox News Sunday” that the U.S. will have to take an active approach in Yemen after multiple recent terrorist attacks on the U.S. were linked back to the Middle Eastern nation.
The Connecticut senator said that an administration official told him that “Iraq was yesterday’s war, Afghanistan is today’s war. If we don’t act preemptively, Yemen will be tomorrow’s war.”


ABC didn’t include Ross’ report in the video on the British response to the warning from Abdulmutallab’s father last month to their webpage, but it’s instructive. Instead of shrugging their shoulders, the Brits immediately added Abdulmutallab to its no-fly list and revoked his visa. That’s what our State Department should have done — and they should be looking at a lot of leads they may have shrugged off over the last few months as well.

That idiot, Napolitano keeps saying this was a one off, a loner when the evidence doesn't support her on that.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby analog » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:28 pm

administration welcomed anything to take Fox News' attention off healthcare bill.
Cogito ergo doleo.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:25 pm

I have to give serious thought that the future of commercial air travel is not bright. The business is already part-militarized; and military protocols don't mix well with commerce. Because law enforcement refuses to “threat profile” and focus on Muslims, the flying public is both inconvenienced and unsafe. A rash of successful terrorist bombings could kill off the whole industry. Perhaps we shall regress to each nation just having one national airline. Won't that be fun!

Or perhaps we'll find some other way to get about. I've routinely scoffed at Shapely's high speed rail comments but maybe.....
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby dai bread » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:17 pm

My son, who went to SFO last month, tells me he saw Caucasian grandmothers hauled out for examination. Apparently the fear of being accused of racism is greater than the fear of terrorists.

I got hauled out twice on my last trip to Oz in October. Our lot aren't any better, nor are the Aussies.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:04 am

It's 9/10/2001.

President Obama said the following: “As the plane made its final approach to Detroit Metropolitan Airport, a passenger allegedly tried to ignite an explosive device on his body, setting off a fire.” (my emphasis) The language is that of courtroom legalese, carefully indicating that a suspect is only “allegedly” guilty of anything, until such time as a jury is convinced by a trial that he was indeed the party responsible for the crime committed.

But as the world knows, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab was indeed very guilty, and only because a Dutch filmmaker sitting near him interceded and subdued him, helping put out the fire at the same time, was the plot unsuccessful. Rather than treat the culprit as a foreign national who became converted in London to the doctrines of radical Islam by mullahs at his local mosque, evidently the decision has been made to treat him as a defendant in a criminal case, with a subsequent trial in which his guilt is not to be prejudged. Although he is a foreign national, evidently he will be treated as if he were an American citizen.

Perhaps that is why at present, the government has not been able to obtain necessary DNA samples from him, since Abdulmutallab clearly does not want to voluntarily acquiesce in giving a sample to the FBI. Coercion and rough treatment, including serious interrogation about the involvement of others, could be used against the government in any ensuing trial.

Yet later in his statement, President Obama, while pledging to “use every element of our national power to disrupt, to dismantle and defeat the violent extremists who threaten us,” continued to say that the quick action taken on the plane to disable the potentially dangerous bomb from detonating showed “that an alert and courageous citizenry are far more resilient than an isolated extremist.” (my emphasis)

Referring to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab as only an “isolated extremist” reveals that even as all the facts are being disclosed and we learn that this was anything but the action of a man acting alone, the president persists in pretending otherwise.

We have all learned that despite the administration’s best hopes, changing the words to describe jihad from a Bush era “war on terrorism” (already inadequate since it should have then been a war against radical Islam) to that of stopping “man-made acts” has not in fact slowed or stopped al-Qaeda from continuing on its chosen path. Indeed, they have the effrontery to argue that this failed action was a response to U.S. efforts taken a few days ago to break apart some of their networks. To al-Qaeda, anything we do to protect ourselves is another example of U.S. aggression.

There were two words noticibly absent from the president's press conference, "islam" "terrorist." And until those words show up in his lexicon be afraid, be very afraid.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Shapley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:42 am

Obviously, we are not to be distracted from the business of destroying our health care delivery system by such minor things as someone trying to destroy an aircraft. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is an amateur. If you really want to see how to muck things up, look to the U.S. Congress.

:curse:
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Shapley » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:00 pm

CNN refers to "The Return Of Terror Politics", whatever that means.

On Sunday, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano initially gave something of a thumbs up to the government's handling of the Detroit terror scare.

"One thing I want to point out is that the system worked. Everybody played an important role here. The passengers and crew of the flight took appropriate action," Napolitano said on CNN's State of the Union.


Apparently, the 'system' includes allowing known radicals to board aircraft where we have Dutch filmakers on hand to thwart their attempts.

Within minutes, Republicans went on the attack.

"Earlier today Secretary Napolitano said the system worked. in fact the system did not work," Rep. Peter King, R-New York, said on CBS' "Face the Nation."


Rep. King, obviously was not aware of this aspect of the 'system'.

When pressed, Napolitano later dialed back her remarks.

"That's a phrase taken out of context," she said. "Our system did not work in this incident. No one is happy with that."


Nope. Mr. King was right, Napolitano wasn't wrong, however, she was just 'taken out of context'. I've grown to hate that phrase. I think I've said as much in the past.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby piqaboo » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:06 am

Its appalling the guy was allowed on board.
Its good that 'civilians' act, be they dutch or otherwise.

Its stupid to think limiting movement around the cabin will prevent the next one.
Xrays dont catch incendiaries taped to the skin, nor does limited range of wander prevent a seat fire.
what idiots.

I dont look forward to going thru security when it includes a pat-down search tho.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Shapley » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:03 am

Quod scripsi, scripsi.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:40 am

piqaboo wrote: I dont look forward to going thru security when it includes a pat-down search tho.


I have resisted flying since I left the corporate world in 2006 and have only flown once, this summer on vacation to England, since then. I am self employed and will either drive to my client's location (my longest is a 10 hour drive to Houma, LA) or will decline the work rather than fly. And it's not because I'm a timid man it's just that flying is no longer convenient, quick, comfortable and, as we learned on Christmas day, particularly safe. It has become a "military like" experience and will probably become more so. I said "military like" since it resembles the military of the 1940s more than the military of today.

To see the danger we face because of Obama’s return to a law-enforcement approach to terrorist interrogation, read today’s front-page story in the Washington Post.

At the very end of the article, the Post notes:

Abdulmutallab remains in a Detroit area prison and, after initial debriefings by the FBI, has restricted his cooperation since securing a defense attorney, according to federal officials. Authorities are holding out hope that he will change his mind and cooperate with the probe, the officials said. (Emphasis added)


Holding out hope? Change his mind? Are they idiots? A terrorist like Abdulmutallab is not a common criminal who should be told he has the “right to remain silent.” He is an enemy combatant, who tried to commit an act of war against the United States of America. He possesses vital intelligence about the terrorist network that deployed him to attack America, and may be planning still more attacks. The Obama administration has a responsibility to make him give up that information. Treating him like a criminal is an abdication of that responsibility, and puts our nation at risk.

We tried this before in the 1990s. It didn’t work out so well. Oddly enough, Osama bin Laden never appeared in federal court to answer his indictment, and the Clinton administration declined to have him delivered to US custody because we weren’t sure we could get a conviction in court. This approach resulted in an escalating series of attacks on US assets around the world during the 1990s, with hundreds of lives lost, and it culminated in 9/11.

Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

We are at war and the president is voting “present”
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:51 pm

Image
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:50 pm

White House takes four days to respond to terror attack, but responds to Cheney criticism in matter of hours?


We could really use a steady hand on the tiller while dealing with national security matters, but the White House is still in campaign mode, worried about what a private citizen -- who left office remarkably unpopular! -- thinks of them.

Suffice to say, this is not reassuring.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:37 pm

Heh. Now he's being call the "eunuchbomber"
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby jamiebk » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:40 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:Heh. Now he's being call the "eunuchbomber"


:lol: :rofl: :lol: Hadn't heard that yet. Serves him right. Now what's he gonna do with all those virgins?
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Shapley » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:59 am

Obama Aide: No 'Smoking Gun' In Airline Bomber Case

I would dispute that, given where the man set the fire. Then again, you have to be aware of the difference between a 'firearm' and a 'gun'. Ask a Marine. ;)
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby jamiebk » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:53 am

Someone sent me this and I thought it was funny: (Dai…sorry 'bout that..apologies; there is probably something in here to offend everyone equally) :rofl:
##########################################
From a Welsh buddy (he’s retired British military, if you can’t tell)…

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats
and have raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon,
though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A
Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940
when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from
"Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a
"Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.

The Scots raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the
Bastards" They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have
been used on the front line in the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror
alert level from "Run" to "Hide". The only two higher levels in France are
"Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire
that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the
country's military capability. It's not only the French who are on a
heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout
loudly and excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels
remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to
"Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher
levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose".

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only
threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels .

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy.
These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy
can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Americans meanwhile and as usual are carrying out pre-emptive strikes, on
all of their allies, just in case.

And in the southern hemisphere...

New Zealand has also raised its security levels - from "baaa" to "BAAAA!".
Due to continuing defence cutbacks (the air force being a squadron of spotty
teenagers flying paper aeroplanes and the navy some toy boats in the Prime
Minister's bath), New Zealand only has one more level of escalation, which
is "$hit, I hope Australia will come and rescue us".

Australia , meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to
"She'll be right, mate". Three more escalation levels remain: "Crikey!', "I
think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend" and "The barbie is
cancelled". So far no situation has ever warranted use of the final
escalation level.
Jamie

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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Haggis@wk » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:00 am

The system is working: underwear bomber’s visa now revoked.

The country is in the very best of hands.
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Shapley » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:16 am

Does that mean we'll now be sending him back?
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby jamiebk » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:29 am

The "intelligence" on this guy was right on par with the good folks who told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. You really can't lay this on Obama alone. Frankly, our intelligence gathering on this and many matters is seriously lacking. So...now...you and I have to consent to being mechanically strip-searched before getting on a airline flight simply because someone can't seem to do their job effectively. In the case of the eunuch-bomber...this guy should not only have been denied this flight...the intelligence community should have had enough on him to set up a 24 hour watch on him. :curse:
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Re: Northwest Flight 253

Postby Trumpetmaster » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:59 pm

You can't make this up.... Especially right after NW Flight 253....


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