Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:09 pm

Acetaminophen we can still get, it's only when it is part of an over-the-counter cold remedy, such as Nyquil, that they are trying to remove it. I

I haven't taken Nyquil in ages, and usually prefer Aspirin to Acetaminophen, but thanks, anyway.

The point is, people won't read labels and assume that over-the-counter medicines are safe in any quantity. The Nanny's in the government, at all levels, therefore assume that they have some responsibility to keep them safe by restricting everyone's access to over-the-counter medicines.

Being a freedom-loving Missourian, I've always reckoned people the right to kill themselves with drugs, if they want. Whether it's meth or acetaminophen, it makes no difference. The government is not our baby sitter.

However, I think the physicians and the pharmacies are behind the effort to make many of these prescription-only. The physicians stand to profit from it. The pharmacists reasoning is understandable: if they are required to keep them under-the-counter, record the sales, and maintain a running tally of who buys it: making it prescription will relieve them of the paperwork burden. Physician's will be responsible for determining suitability, prescribing quantities, and tracking patients' usage.

For we, the consumers, however, it simply means is that we'll be paying more for the drugs.

Meth, of course, came into being because the government cracked down on the drug 'speed'. As a result of that crackdown, a substitute was born, apparently more lethal than the dangerous drug it replaced. When meth becomes similarly difficult to acquire/manufacture, another will take its place, and the government will begin curtailing more product access in their efforts to make it unavailable.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:11 pm

Haggis@wk wrote:My prescription Allegra went from $3 for three months worth to nearly $25 for two months worth OTC at Wal-mart.


I assume that is the cost to you. How much was your insurance company paying for the prescription? I assume they pay nothing at all for the OTC...
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:23 pm

Shapley wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:My prescription Allegra went from $3 for three months worth to nearly $25 for two months worth OTC at Wal-mart.


I assume that is the cost to you. How much was your insurance company paying for the prescription? I assume they pay nothing at all for the OTC...

Hey! What do you guys want, socialized medicine or spending cuts? Are you implying the drug companies are gouging us? My own experience with my insurance and OTC drugs is now, after my office co-pay, the price is the same. But I still have to pay for the insurance.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby jamiebk » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:44 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
Shapley wrote:
Haggis@wk wrote:My prescription Allegra went from $3 for three months worth to nearly $25 for two months worth OTC at Wal-mart.


I assume that is the cost to you. How much was your insurance company paying for the prescription? I assume they pay nothing at all for the OTC...

Hey! What do you guys want, socialized medicine or spending cuts? Are you implying the drug companies are gouging us? My own experience with my insurance and OTC drugs is now, after my office co-pay, the price is the same. But I still have to pay for the insurance.


That's strange, my Rx went from $25.00 to 3.00 at my local pharmacy. I asked why...they said they were competing with Walmart
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:36 am

jamiebk wrote: That's strange, my Rx went from $25.00 to 3.00 at my local pharmacy. I asked why...they said they were competing with Walmart



Not strange. Once Allegra went OTC we have to compete in the market place. While as a prescription we have the protection of mass retailing, i.e. Wal-Mart
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby piqaboo » Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:01 am

AMA oversight - my bad.
Go to someone board certified if you want oversight.

i know the insurance will go away. my employer's been chipping away at bennies since we changed CEOs.
Last year we punished the long-term-loyal employees by freezing the rate of vacation accrual for years 10-15.
Nice, eh?

Sounds like Missiourians got themselves a medicine-nanny.
Next thing, you'll need special dispensaries, liquor boards, and the like.
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:04 am

piqaboo wrote:Sounds like Missiourians got themselves a medicine-nanny.
Next thing, you'll need special dispensaries, liquor boards, and the like.


Possibly. I hope not. It's all in the name of fighting meth, we're told. If Meth becomes too difficult or expensive to manufacture, I reckon they'll just switch to something else. Supposedly, the rise in the use of meth is the result of the restrictions on access to other drugs.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:05 pm

After contraception restaurant menus are next.

The Secretary shall establish by regulation standards for determining and disclosing the nutrient content for standard menu items that come in different flavors, varieties, or combinations, but which are listed as a single menu item, such as soft drinks, ice cream, pizza, doughnuts, or children’s combination meals, through means determined by the Secretary, including ranges, averages, or other methods.


Government health care is not about health care, it’s about government power over you. Once you look at it that way, what the Dems are doing makes perfect sense. For them.

If you don’t get that after this week or so, you never will. There is almost literally nothing that does not fall under Commissar Sebelius’s “health” portfolio. And she’s just getting warmed up.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:57 pm

People who continue to eat unhealthy should be tossed in a meat grinder and processed into delicious green biscuits.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Haggis@wk » Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:21 pm

“What Makes Killing Wrong?”
an article published in the January 19, 2012 edition of the Journal of Medical Ethics. The authors argue that death and total disability are morally indistinguishable, and therefore harvesting organs from living disabled patients is not morally wrong.

Several years ago I mentioned that doctors in Europe were mis-using euthanasia laws to kill elderly patients who were never consulted before being ‘put-down.’ Do you see any reason why this won’t become the norm here???
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Alexis De Tocqueville 1835
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby dai bread » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:13 am

Giant Communist Robot wrote:People who continue to eat unhealthy should be tossed in a meat grinder and processed into delicious green biscuits.


Do you know your Harry Harrison or are you thinking of the movie?
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby jamiebk » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am

Haggis@wk wrote:After contraception restaurant menus are next.

The Secretary shall establish by regulation standards for determining and disclosing the nutrient content for standard menu items that come in different flavors, varieties, or combinations, but which are listed as a single menu item, such as soft drinks, ice cream, pizza, doughnuts, or children’s combination meals, through means determined by the Secretary, including ranges, averages, or other methods.


Government health care is not about health care, it’s about government power over you. Once you look at it that way, what the Dems are doing makes perfect sense. For them.

If you don’t get that after this week or so, you never will. There is almost literally nothing that does not fall under Commissar Sebelius’s “health” portfolio. And she’s just getting warmed up.


Yeah, but in our capitalist society, there is always room for private enterprise to bloom...I am already thinking of a "speakeasy" donut shop opportunity. I could make millions! 8)
Jamie

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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:33 am

I tried going in the donut business once, but wound up going in the hole. I just couldn't make enough dough...

Now, where's that [groan] icon?
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:59 am

The city council in Honolulu is considering repealing the anti-smoking ban for bars and nightclubs. The rationale is this is a private property use issue, and the argument against repeal is employees are involuntarily exposed to constant smoke. Personally I don't smoke and appreciate being able to go to a smoke free restaurant. But I've never been to a bar or nightclub in my life, so I can't see how this would adversely effect me.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:06 pm

Illinois passed a similar ban which included bars, nightclubs, and casinos. The Casinos are pressing hard for a repeal, as their business has dropped significantly since the ban. I've been to nearest casino only a few times, before and after the ban, and there is quite a difference in occupance, though I do not know how much is due to the ban and how much to the economy.

Casinos in states without the ban have apparently not seen as much a drop, suggesting the ban may be a pretty big factor.

Apparently those who don't like to spend their money enriching tobacco firms are similarly disinclined to spend it enriching casino magnates. Who could have guessed?
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:26 pm

their business has dropped significantly


This is the motive of the business owners. If you drive by at night you can see their patrons out on the sidewalk smoking. Without the ban they'd be in the bar nursing a beer.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:38 pm

Do you know your Harry Harrison or are you thinking of the movie?


Uh...I saw the movie. Uncultured and illiterate as I am, I had to Google Harrison.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby jamiebk » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:44 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
their business has dropped significantly


This is the motive of the business owners. If you drive by at night you can see their patrons out on the sidewalk smoking. Without the ban they'd be in the bar nursing a beer.


So put a bar outside as well. I don't like smoke and it makes me sick. If there is smoke, they lose my business.
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Giant Communist Robot » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:04 pm

So put a bar outside as well.


Fine with me. As long as its on private property what's the issue?
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Re: Repeal and Replace Obamacare?

Postby Shapley » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:26 pm

Giant Communist Robot wrote:
their business has dropped significantly


This is the motive of the business owners. If you drive by at night you can see their patrons out on the sidewalk smoking. Without the ban they'd be in the bar nursing a beer.


When I went to the casino, I saw a relatively small number of patrons in the smoking areas, certainly far fewer than there were patrons inside smoking before the ban. Methinks a lot of them have taken their business to casinos in states that still permit smoking. There is no shortage of casinos in this area. The nearest, the non-smoking one in Metropolis, IL, is about an hour away. However, there are smoking-permitted ones in Caruthersville, MO (about an hour-and-a-half to the South) and St. Louis, MO (about an hour-and-a-half to the North).

Many cities do not permit drinking outside the establishments, so bar patrons have to stay inside to drink and go outside to smoke In Illinois, and in cities in this region which ban smoking in public establishments. To the best of my knowledge, Illinois is the only nearby state that bans it statewide.

An outdoor smoking bar makes sense in good weather, and there are few with outdoor tables that serve liquour. But, I'm in agreement that it is a property-rights issue, and private facilities should be free to permit the pollution of their indoor air with smoke if they so desire. Workers applying for jobs there should be made aware of the conditions before hiring on...
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