Katrina 2005

[Trumpetmaster]

Originally posted by PSIP:

Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:
[b]

I have to go to a meeting now.. Actually a conference call.. If it gets boring, I'm jumping back here.

What do you mean IF?

[Shapley]

Haggis,

RE:I keep hearing comparisons that Katrina is the greatest disaster since the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco, especially in the printed MSM.

It seems that very few Americans, especially our press, is aware of the 1900 hurricane in Galveston, Texas that was estimated to have killed 8,000, and that was estimated to be a cat 4.

But that would still make it the greatest since 1906, wouldn't it????

[Trumpetmaster]

Allright now....

We all agree the "Leadership" or Lack of in NOLA is not cutting it....

The sad thing I just read about was these so called gangs shooting at the people trying to rescue everyone... Peoples lives could be saved but these jerks are screwing this whole thing up.
Shoot the Bast...ds and move on....

I am angry over this...



Sorry for being so descriptive here, and I know it's the wrong thing as we are all gods children but.....

Better yet.... Get these people and lock them up for a number of years for doing what they're doing

[Trumpetmaster]

BTW,
My wife and I went down to ground zero one week after 9/11. Words can not put what we saw.

There were thousands of people down there and an eerie silence. The bent beams of what was left of the trade center... and smoke rising from the rubble.... Powdered dust all over buildings blocks from the scene....

No looting going on..
Just a hurt, sad, and bonding feeling we as Americans felt. Tears in peoples eyes.

It was an experience I will never forget.

Yes this is a different situation but what gives those people the right to now be using guns....

Forgive me Lord... Shoot em..... and get on with saving those truly in need..

[mmichaelson]

Yep, I'm with you. As much as I hate to say it. . .

I would be outside my residence protecting my property and life to every ability (I also happen to shoot better than Annie Oakley, so that would help).

[Trumpetmaster]

SB,
I'll hire you as a bodyguard

[piqaboo]

Yes, Shap, it would indeed.
A sad sigh for the state of editing, all together now...... <sigh>.

As well as perhaps the greatest since 1900.
Isaac's Storm describes the Galveston hurricane in astonishing detail, including the information that might have warned people in time to evacuate, had they known how to interpret it. In Galveston, it was the storm surge that did the majority of damage and caused most of the loss of life, as in NOLA.

I must say, that pre-Katrina, they'd estimated that ~80% of NOLA had evacuated. Thats a remarkably high number. Most folks did take the warnings very seriously.

[haggis]

Piq,

"Hurricane Pam" was the most recent study of what would happen in NOLA if it were hit by a cat. 4 or 5 hurricane.

Interestingly, in the tabletop scenario, the surge was anticipated to be so high that it didn't matter if the levies went, pretty accurate as it turns out.

They also anticipated that 20% of the households would ignore or not be able to respond to a mandatory evacuation order, also pretty close to actual numbers that did stay.

The situation that has transpired has been the subject of debate since the '60s at least and probably since the '50s.

Large portions of the city are below sea level and were eventually going to get flooded. As in Holland, regardless how well you plan, when you live on the coast below sea level you can expect to get drowned every 100 years or so.

The real question now is how much rebuilding will there be in those low areas?

Sadly, I predict that there will be more than should be allowed.

But then, mankind has always seemed to prefer the view from the flanks of a volcano.

(Ed. "Mixing our metaphors a bit, aren't we?"

Shut up, I like that better than some line about living on a beach....)

[piqaboo]

Great link, haggis.
"Hurricane Pam": holy moly, that was only done a year ago!

They werent paying attention to CA if they thought that temporary housing would only be needed for 3 mnths (100 days) after having all the housing destroyed. We still have folks out here who havent been able to finish rebuilding from the 2003 fires.

And they seem to have forgottent to study a topo map of the affected areas.

Hard lessons for future planners....

[BigJon@Work]

I'm surprised you all are surprised at the resident violence and the general incompetence of the politicians in NOLA. I predicted as much when I first heard of the growing problems. New Orleans has been the murder rate capital of the U.S. for years. It is a place unto itself in the U.S. where the smallest of slights are resolved at the point of a gun and the code of silence is deafening after someone takes a bullet. You have your clan, and the clan looks out for you and yours through violence and intimidation. The clans are loose knit and deeply submerged beneath day-to-day life, but you know that they are there.

The politicians are at the mercy of these clans if they want to get elected, so most of the elected folks running the city are more adept at graft and corruption than administration. And most of the non-elected employees are patronage appointments rather than merit hiring.

My brother-in-law spent four years in New Orleans on an anthropology assignment and got very deep into the hidden culture. He has many hair-raising stories to tell including stories of secrecy so deep it would do the NSA proud.

This is also why I hold no hope that the rebuilding process will improve the situation against future natural disasters. The entrenched interests will overcome any common sense to make sure that they and theirs are taken care of. I also fear that the NOLA brand of justice will be exported to other area by those cannot return.

I return to my original solution, tear down the levees on the Mississippi side and let her retake her own. It can't be worse that what is already there.

<small>[ 09-01-2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: BigJon@Work ]</small>

[piqaboo]

After looking closely at a number of photographs of helicopter rescues, I think I might give them the Altoid and elect to take my chances on the roof. I think I'd die of fright during the basket ride up to the bird, and then transferring from the basket. Yikes !

[zlosin]

A couple of days ago I wrote this on a Detroit BB.

Relocate the refugees to Detroit. We have lots of room and empty building and a working infrastructure. Can't say much about the government though.
It might get a little chilly, but it doesn't flood."

Oh yea, Our toilets flush down, not up


Today this news came out
http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0%2C2132%2CWXYZ_15924_4047939%2C00.html

[piqaboo]

I've heard of a number of private families as well are offering temporary homes. Nice folks!

Who's offering jobs? The mayor of Detroit?
A job offer would seal my decision of where to go!

All those evacuated are not only out of a home, but out of work, until the city re-opens. Some of those jobs will never come back. Ditto Biloxi,etc.

<small>[ 09-01-2005, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>

[monkeymd2b]

All I can say is that I'm blessed to have a job that keeps me so busy that I forget to eat lunch (what fun today was!) and can't watch all the crap that's happening down there. As bad as the crime was down there pre katrina and other crappy things about how inefficient the city government was pre-Katrina, it was such a beautiful city and nice place to live and go to school. It breaks my heart to think of all my friends who now are homeless and hopefully safe somewhere.

Now for my smart A$$ remark:
Do you suppose Walmart would write off the stuff looted as a charitable donation if they openly say it's okay for folks in NOLA to take what they want?

[zlosin]

I was just thinking about you Monkey,glad you are home.

Some good news
Fats Domino found safe.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/01/katrina.fats.domino/index.html#ISTWABH

MP's are now arriving with "shoot to kill ordres" reports CNN.

[Serenity]

How come the gators aren't gettin' fat?

[DavidS]

Originally posted by monkeymdib:


Now for my smart A$$ remark:
Do you suppose Walmart would write off the stuff looted as a charitable donation if they openly say it's okay for folks in NOLA to take what they want?

No, not SA, but should be thought through:
1. Are the looters limiting themselves to taking consumer products from shops, or are they going for cash registers and money safes, and hitting private homes (for whatever's left in them)?
2. And if they are forming violent gangs and taking control of the territory (and possibly warring between each other)...?
3. If stores were to allow people to help themselves freely to their stock, the above gangs could grab the lot and create a black market. How would that help the needy? That may be what's happening anyway, so what good would officially sanctioning it do?

<small>[ 09-02-2005, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: DavidS ]</small>

[Haggis@wk]

As I pointed out earlier, the hurricane of 1900 in Galveston killed 8,000 and, more importantly, was the impetus that permitted the area between NOLA and Mobile, AL to become the shipping capital of the southern U.S.

Galveston was well on its way to being the most important U.S. port in the south but the loss of infrastructure and work force forced the shipping and other deep water dependent industries further north along the Gulf coast.

Will Katrina have the same economic impact? Like Galveston, much of NOLA is below sea level and will always be at the mercy of Mother Nature's whims.

As for what is going on now, not only was it predictable, it was, alas, unpreventable.

A disaster on the magnitude of Katrina in a heavily populated metropolis such as greater NOLA and the adjacent Gulf coast will always overwhelm the available relief support.

There will never (never, ever, carve-it-in-stone-ever) be enough money to train and equip the rescue resources that would be enough to help in a disaster of this nature.

According to the HSA profile from 1999 there are only 4,722 hospital beds in NOLA area and wanna hazard a guess how many of them are even available for use today?

If those of you on the CA coast (ahem! ) aren't learning some hard lessons from this, then you need to pay attention. Every household in the U.S. should have at least a week’s worth of food, emergency supplies and a gun. I have a week’s worth in my cars alone (MREs aren’t as bad as you might think!) I draw your attention to the businesses and homes in NOLA that haven’t been looted, in almost every instance it was because the owner cared enough to sit outside with a gun of some kind.


Life does not get safer as we advance into the “civilized” future, we just become better adapted and educated to deal with the harsher side of it.

[OperaTenor]

From what I've heard, some of those hospital beds are still being used(!). I heard reports yesterday of two different hospitals(one is Charity Hospital, caring for primarily indigent patients) who were unable, for whatever reason, to evacuate their patients prior to the hurricane, and now can't seem to find any help. They report patients are dying from the conditions, and have had power problems as rising water threatens their generators, and are running out of supplies. One doctor ended up calling the AP because he was unable to reach any officials.

Apparently, the land phone lines have been the only infrastructure to survive so far, because they are buried and sealed.

What I read in the paper this morning amounted to a whole bunch of finger-pointing on all levels of bureaucracy. Part of what I see I tend to attribute to the MSM looking for sensationalism, and part of it on political scapegoating. I wish they'd all save their breath and get down to business.

[piqaboo]

Acc the radio, both Charity and the other public hospital are within 1/2 mile of the Nat Guard staging area.
Evacs were stopped when someone shot at a Nat'l Guard driver. This may be a bad Q, but ....
arent those guys paid to be shot at, and to shoot back?

It seems to me that in 3.5 days, both hospitals (less than 3000 people) could have been evac'd, by airlift if necessary. Tulane is not accepting new patients, and apparently their generators are in better shape than the other two hospitals, both of which are now running out of food as well.

Someone needs to depose that mayor and take charge.