Culture

[Brodie]

God its almost sad to see this bit of the board be so low. I mean this is the most listen to classical station in the world and in one section of their forum there is only 29 posts. Tisk tisk tisk. Well atleast I'm going to get this up to 30. So on with what I have to say. <P>And what might that be, as some of you were quick to ask yourself thus reading all this nonsensical meandering of the topic in order to please my own demented little fancies that my mind works up in the thick of things during the middle of a sentence just as I have done. But more to the point what is it?<P>How is a person who listens to certain music supposed to act? Yes that's my question. I got into a great arguement if I may call it such though it is more of a heated debate over something as meaningless as that. I mean what I asked. Is a person who likes classical supposed to be more intellegent and sophisticated than say a person who listens to Grunge? Or is a person who listens to Baroque anymore sociologically different than someone who listens to hip-hop?<P>I'd like to hear what you guys think. And hey if no one responds it was atleast worth a shot.<P><BR>-Brodie

[DavidEB310]

How does a guy that listens to Classical music act? I would assume quite normally.<P>Let's see; I'll pop in Classical music and continue the home improvement projects that seem to go on forever.<P>Or maybe, I'll turn it off and kick back and watch "The Sopranos" with a glass of wine -- great music on their show soundtrack.<P>When I'm not listening to Classical, I could be listening to Country, or Jazz, or old Punk Rock, or maybe I'm watching my Yankees strive to another year of baseball excellence, or catch a New York Giants game and wish they could re-capture old excellence.<P>Maybe, there is a Bach melody in my head when I'm walking, biking, blading or hitting the Cross-Trainer at the gym. Or maybe it wasn't Bach at all, but Mozart.<P>Perhaps some classical music is the perfect transition from the work of the day to a night of romance with my wife.<P>I'd say, just be yourself.

[barfle]

I don't suppose my reply is going to satisfy you, Brodie, because it's really not an answer to your question. I believe everyone <I>should</I> act politely and civilly, whether they listen to classical, country, hip-hop, or Tibetan surf instrumentals.<P>I can make a few sweeping generalizations, though. I don't suppose many classical music listeners hold their automatic weapons in a horizontal "gangsta" grip. Most hip-hop listeners probably don't conduct the choir the same way they conduct the winds. And a lot Tibetan surf instrumental listeners use a different grip on their lariats than do country listeners.

[DavidEB310]

Yeah, I didn't really answer the question. We are all unique and different -- sometimes we just share the same tastes in food, music, or other interests. Sometimes intelligence, class, religion, race, or age just doesn't matter...

[Brodie]

Good to hear from the two people who have responded that they think what I think. By any means music nor anything else should confine you to something, right? This was my whole debate with him. He said that we should act like the group acts. So rappers shouldn't have violins and Composers shouldn't have bandanas, or atleast thats what he thought.<P>I think we should all be able to act the way we want to act despite what others believe. Am I right or wrong?<P><BR>-Brodie

[davechristiansen]

come on though, let's all admit... stereotypes are useful and fun. and it's much easier to make assumptions than spend the time it takes to discern the finer points of someone's personality, likes/dislikes, etc. why would you want to spend valuable time on something like that?<P>it's much easier to assume that classical listeners live in houses with three car garages, and read heavy books by philosphers whose names no one can pronounce. they probably all wear those tweed jackets with the patches on the elbows, and drink fine wine... certainly not beer, and certainly not to excess. classical listeners hate rap music by a rule (if you can call rap "music". am i right?), and the only tv (sorry, tele-vision) they watch is PBS. <P>that pretty acurately describes the beethoven listenership right? <P>***for those that have already taken offense to the preceding comments: i assure you they were made completely in jest. no conviction should be assumed or inferred in regards to this post. <P>later loyal listeners!<P>davec

[Brodie]

Um, just for comparison, I'd like to say I am about the opposite of the stereotype you gave to Classical listeners. Though I do think it is a rule that anybody with a decent ear hates rap. Rap is nothing but one-chorded crap with talking about drugs, gangsta whores, and raping all the way through it.<P>But the stereotype you gave me doesn't describe me. I don't have a three car garage. Nor do I wear a tweed jacket. I don't drink wine, well atleast not much of it. I definitely don't watch PBS. I don't read thick books. And I hate philosophers (I mainly hate them because, as I have come to realize just over the past week or so [hell you might have even noticed a difference in my writing if you're real keen] that writing should not preach but it should rather show and let people come to their own conclusions, but thats not my point).<P>In fact I have a single car garage if I can call it such. I wear cheap black band shirts most of the time along with the cheapest pair of jeans I can find (yes moeny is an issue to me). I have long hair. I drink to drink, not to enjoy the refreshing taste of Alpine grove just this side Califonia, or any of that nonsense. And I watch whatever's on.<P>So you see you can't very much judge something by music. Just for another bit of fun, what would you say a person who listens to Jazz, funk, punk, rock, heavy metal, classical, baraque, raggae, industrial, gothic (gothic as in the century of gothic and not all this screaming crappy "gothic" metal)....what do you think those stereotypes would be, I fit into all of those groups, so I really wonder what they are.<P>Stereotypes do nothing but demean everything about a person's individuality and strip them of their own God given abilities and conform them to act a certain way. I mean if we were all made to be the same and equal in every sense of the word there would be no need to ever get to know some one else since you would know about them just as much as you would yourself. Rash generalizations....who needs 'em?<P><BR>-Brodie

[barfle]

Well, I admit I probably fit the stereotype of a classical music fan fairly well. I'm in my mid fifties, married, two cars in the garage, professional job.<P>I also have a technical degree (electrical engineering) and ride the bus and subway to work. I drink a little beer, a little wine, a little scotch, depending on the circumstances and my feelings at the time. Merlot just doesn't cut it when you're hot and sweaty from yard work.<P>Is there a way we <I>should</I> act? Well, we should act the way we expect other people to act, in that we are polite and honest, but that applies to everybody, not just classical music listeners. I admit I have considered using Mozart's "Revenge Aria" for just that purpose when I hear hip-hop blaring from somebody's car, but so far it's just been a thought.<P>I don't know if you were addressing me, Brodie, when you said that "rappers shouldn't have violins and Composers shouldn't have bandanas." That's not what I said, I said that it's likely that they wouldn't. I'm a little confused by the contrasting opinions you've posted here. In your first post, you at least implied that musical taste defines how a person is supposed to act, which immediately categorizes people into large groups based on their musical preferences. That was <B>asking</B> for a generalization. In your post just above this one, you stated that you had no need for the generalizations. Pretty much, you asked for my opinion, then told me that it didn't count. Or did I misinterpret something?<P>Oh, yeah. It's pronounced "culcha" in <I>our</I> group!<p>[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: barfle ]

[tancred]

What is "typical"? Rap is garbage and I detest Rock music. I think modern American culture is impoverished to say the least. In this way, I may be typical.<BR>However, I love to go out for beer ( really good beer) with the guys as well as take part in multiple century Living history which requires me to "fight" with all manners of weapons in tactical simulations. ( You can't help but to hear Wagner in the back of your head when a bunch of Vikings are charging down a hill at you or hear Purcell when Parlimantarian Cavalry is coming within range of your musket)... I read no end of horror literature and collect pulp novels from Arkham House Publishing.<BR>All in all - yeah, I'm typical!<BR>Tanc<BR> <p>[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: tancred ]

[soundtracker]

What do classical music listeners have in common? Simple--they are more the THINKERS.<P>People who listen too much to Rap and Top 40 and other music with too many words and too little imagination are people trying to NOT think. They'd prefer to have their thoughts drowned out or given to them.<P>Classical music instead stimulates thinking and usually does not interfere with the words in your head while you do. Further, classical draws emotions up from within you.<P>But the monotonous words of many popular forms of music do the opposite. They immerse people in small loops of familiar repetitive phrases and tell people what to think and feel.<P>Sure, even the thinkers occasionally like to immerse themselves in other types of music--but that is for infrequent recreational purposes, and we don't inhale.

[DavidEB310]

Soundtracker,<P>I have to disagree with you.<P>Just because you listen to a type of music (and yeah I did inhale!) doesn't mean you're not a thinker!?! <P>My friends and I grew up with the Ramones (Beat on the Brat,Beat on the Brat, Beat on the Brat with a Baseball Bat, Oh Yeah-- HOW'S THAT FOR SOME SIMPLE NON-THINKING LYRICS), Sex Pistols, The Clash, etc. We spent our time pogo-ing (dancing by jumping up and down) and slam-dancing! We boozed on Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer, and some of my fondest days were spent in front of the Ramones live going deaf temporarily -- I still have the picks DeeDee gave me.<P>You know what? I was a good student. I graduated from college with a plus 3.0 cum. I have taught both Secondary English and Spanish. I am currently a Senior Technical Writer (Consultant). I have the 2 Car garage, a beautiful wife, 4 daughters, and I like Cold beer and fine wine. My non-thinking head-bashing friends of the past are now making 6 figure incomes (Legally, I may add, as Management of some top companies). <P>C'mon Classical Music makes you no more a thinker than Punk Rock. It doesn't make you better either. I'm sure there are some real pychopath killers out there who love to maim to Beethoven (scary but true). Watch Clockwork Orange is you want some indication of how Classical Music and Violence can go together. It's the individual who makes the choices; it's not the type of music listened to. <P>P.S. All music can drive emotion and imagination. Take Mick Jagger or Bruce Sprinsteen for example... Still going strong decades later! Emotionless non-thinking unimaginative men couldn't do that... <p>[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: DavidEB310 ]

[barfle]

From a song that was popular (maybe before I learned to think...)<P>Batman<BR>Batman<BR>Batman<BR>Batman<BR>Batman<BR>Batman<BR>Batman<BR>dodododododododododo<BR>Batman

[soundtracker]

DavidEB310, <P>You read way too many things into my message that I didn't say. What I mentioned was that classical was more conducive to thinking, while repetitive rap and top40 is more distracting and less conducive to thinking. <P>You seemed to have turned this around to somehow believing I was saying that listening to other forms of music makes you stupid. Not at all--I don't agree with that either.<P>Maybe all that Ramones music (yes, I listened to them too--hey ho, lets go...I'm a teenage lobotomy...) did more detriment to you than you thought? =:^O

[DavidEB310]

Soundtracker:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You read way too many things into my message that I didn't say. What I mentioned was that classical was more conducive to thinking, while repetitive rap and top40 is more distracting and less conducive to thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is exactly what I'm disagreeing to. What famous study bears these results? While I don't enjoy rap, if I did, and I were young, I'm guessing that I would be just as able to reason and think during homework sessions for example, listening to it, as I did to the Ramones or any of my other non-Classical music. My oldest daughter listens to such music that I can't stand while she tackles her schoolwork, and yet somehow, she is 13 in a class of over 200. I guess maybe were she to choose Mozart, she would move up within those 12 slots to head of the class?<P>It's pompous to think that only Classical music can yield classic results and is more conductive to thinking than other music types! Again, it's all due to the individual's mind...GABBA GABBA HEY! <p>[ 09-17-2002: Message edited by: DavidEB310 ]

[tancred]

Guys, this topic was explored three weeks ago, perhaps you can go back and read the posts.

[davechristiansen]

where is this going? back to musical stereotypes... <P>Brodie, were you being serious way back there when you said...<P>"Though I do think it is a rule that anybody with a decent ear hates rap. Rap is nothing but one-chorded crap with talking about drugs, gangsta whores, and raping all the way through it."<P>i'd like to think that was all tongue in cheek, but i get the general feeling around here that the majority of listeners _do_ considr rap to be c_rap. it's understandable, i guess, with what get's presented as rap in mainstream radio and tv, but rap (or hip-hip) is a genre worthy of respect (and if not respect, at least closer, more open-minded inspection). while Jay-Z may be thuggin' and Nelly wants us all to take our clothes off there's a whole host of socially conscious, or at least intelligent, emcee-ing out there; KRS-One, Prince Paul, Kool Keith, Company Flow, Quasimoto... all great examples of rap that has something to say. as for interesting compositional ideas... first of all, melody and harmony are not the only elements worth listening to, but that's a thread in and of itself. there are DJs, turntablists, and hip-hop producers that have more to say compositionally than most "legitimate" composers; Coldcut, Cut Chemist, Prefuse 73, etc. brilliant collage work (and i mean _brilliant_) so deeply layered and referential you may as well be listening to Ives' 2nd. there are also gifted performers... the invisibl skratch piklz and the x-ecutioners are two DJ crews that would literaly make anyone's jaw drop. <P>granted, everyone seems to be expressing a lack of patience for rap's invasiveness. there are after all a lot of things encroaching on our individual sonic space (yet another good thread), but to dismiss an entire genre of music as worthless is a little much. there's always something to learn. <P>ok. off my pulpit. i apologize. <P>now for this whole music and intelligence debate...<P>later livid listeners<P>davec

[Brodie]

Boy oh boy oh boy oh boy. Did this topic explode or what? 15 posts in matter of like 2 days. Numerous things for me to mention, clarify and also put my two pennies in as well.<P>Tanc, I know you enjoyed last week's topic, and I know you'r bound to love this one.... <P>Barfle I wasn't addressing you when I said all that stuff, it was a broad generalization that was my friend said. I agree more with what you said. They most likely wouldn't do that, though thats not stopping them. Hell George Clinton's a composer, how many of you would have guessed that?<P>Soundtracker, don't even get started with the whole "Does classical music make you smarter?" bit. That is so last week.... But seriously its been debated, but in my opinion I don't believe any ONE thing can make a person smarter, its got to be their God given ability and their will to do so. No less, no more.<P>David, you've just been on a roll with me on this one. everything that's come out of your mouth has been exactly what I wanted to say. Just thought I'd mention it....<P>Davec, I don't know where its going, or how its going to get there 'but yea I guess we're apart of it' But yes I was absolutely serious when I said that about rap. I feel if you actually feel compelled to express your emotions in such a matter to get your point across feel free to do so in any way fit, but I can't stand that crap. You know what I mean? And I also noticed your quote by Thoreau, are you a big fan of his?<P>Well anyone have anything else to say?<P><BR>-Brodie

[priya978]

Good Ciscussion topic brodir-I congraduat you!!<P>Well since this topic was started I must therefore state some rather startling information about me.<P>I know I'm on beethoven.com because I love Beethoven-with Mozart,Stravinsky,Vivialdi,Liszt,etc. but i do like Christina Aguilera,Justin Timberlake,B2k,Cam'ron,Nelly,Ludacris,etc, and personally I don't think the people that stated that rap isn't music are being fair,let alone being the opposite of arrogant.It DOES qualify as music just a different genre than CLASSICAL-it's a different style-for example,Scarlatti and Stravinsky-completely different but I'm absolutely positive that everyone on here considers it music.Plus have you actually trained your ear to appeciate rap.I DON'T BELIEVE SO.Imagine this(which i doubt is possible to the people on this website but none the less)imagine that you had never listened to classical ever in your life,you had listened to (a little easier to concieve) pop forever and ever,but then one day Dubussy comes along-you'd probably think "DESPICABLE STUFF,THAT DUBUSSY" that's not music in the least.Am I right?Well you guys can't nesecssarily argue that I'm wrong can you,because you've never actually expirenced that-and you never will because it's completely impossible.So you people can't argue on this subject and if you do your unconditionally insolent! <BR>And if you've read what I've wrote on this website you'de realize that i do know classical music,and probably @ a college level,so I can and wish to conduct an orchestra-but i'm still fond of Ja Rule.<BR>Plus,this is going to make an enormous impression about my writtings and most of all ME,Im actually hestitant to reveal thi,but it helps me in this debate.......... I'm 13.<P>I don't like punk rock (any form old or new,i don't drink champange,i don't wear tweed outfits-i wear large Ecko sweaters,big Old Navy shirts,and baggy jeans-,i don't ahve a house ( part of this is obvious considering the last line of the last paragraph)i hate philosophers and their work,too much thinking about absolutely nothing that relevant anymore-it might have been about a 100 centuries ago or however long ago they wrote them-but know we know how large the Earthy is (sorry Plato,you're calculations were WRONG,W-R-O-N-G)and most of us commoners and us teens don't care about the secret of life-who even said that there was a secret-there isn't- the only thing we do is SHIT,Eat,the Sleep-nothing important.A rare 2% or us might actually make a diff. but even if we do it still won't change the world.<P>So in conclusion don't bash anything that you don't and can't have any right to bash.You're just sharing your insubordinance with the viewers of this website-though i doubt that they'll even understand my point of view.If you have anything to say to me or about my statements please do so.I'll be happy to respond with more of my thoughts .GOOD-BYE!!!!!!

[priya978]

By the way I play the following:<BR>Violin,Basson,Viola,Cello,Bass,Bb trumpet,F horn,( which isn't politically correct but who cares?)PIANO,Percussion,Bb clarinet,bass clarinet,Baritone horn,etc-mainly everything except the flute and saxophone.

[priya978]

By the way-the way i act.<P>I watch Comicview,BET is my favorite tv station,I freak dance, i do my homework with a 4.0 gpa currently, and i do listen to rap.By the way rap is not all about Whores,etc. and to find examples of this you don't have to go back to 10-20 years ago.For example Lil' Fizz from B2k, and Will smith( will smith sucks!!!but still he still thinks ( and maybe he is) rapping-you stereotypical white people get on my last nerves( my hands are shaking because Im soo egregious) plus they're just songs it's not like they're really going out there RAPPING girls-otherwise they wouldn't be rapping or they'de be rapping in jail.,and I still mellow out with mozart,ana play beethoven's sonatas,etc.BAD-BYE!!!!!!!!