What's your area of living famous for?

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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby bignaf » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:01 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TuneGirl:<BR><STRONG><BR>Now a New Englander in Patriots and Celtics land.... Famous</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> :mad: red sox :mad:
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:40 am

Big, my man! I'm seeing an awful lot of ;)
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby bignaf » Fri Jan 24, 2003 4:02 pm

:mad: :mad: :mad: me mad? :mad: :mad: :mad: i'll kill you :mad: i just found out about the mad smilie so I'm practicing it. lol
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby EJA » Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:45 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shostakovich:<BR><STRONG>It would be nice to hear from people outside the USA, too. I think our old friend Peter lives not far from the home of Dickens. And it would be nice to hear from Peter (and Clare).<BR>Shos</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll send them an e-mail right now!
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Sat Jan 25, 2003 4:46 pm

Anyone hear been to Pittsburgh?
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby thornhill » Sun Jan 26, 2003 5:32 pm

so brickroot, who got your vote for Governor?
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:30 pm

Well, I'm only 16 (at least as of thursday I will be) but Fisher would have. Schools don't need more money, they need a competitive system to inspire reform. Also, I find it hard to vote for a man who supports abortion, even if gov. doesn't have much effect on that (Fisher unfortunately still supports abortion for rape/incest. How can you recognize abortion as murder but still validate it in some cases?) Who got yours Thorny?
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby thornhill » Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:23 pm

brickroot,<P>Grrrr <P>I work for Governor Rendell when I'm not in school; still tieing up lose ends from the Inaugural.<P>As for the abortion issue, the number of abortions in Philadelphia actually dropped while Ed was mayor because of the money he pumped into planned parenthood organizations.<P>Despite what you may think of Ed, I'm sure you'll at least like that he's very pro arts (he and his wife are pretty much single-handily responsible for the Kimmel Center happening).<P>I was just curious who a random PGH person voted for.<P>Anyway, welcome to a new Pennsylvania.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Mon Jan 27, 2003 5:24 pm

Whether they have gone down or not, it's the man's principles that I brought up the whole issue for.<P>I am glad to hear about the pro-arts (and not pro-choice) though. How does a college kid get to work for Ed Rendell?<P>What do you think about the education issue though-do you agree that competition is the answer? (It works in every other market, why wouldn't it work in education).
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby thornhill » Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:40 pm

I interned for the campaign’s finance department over the summer. By knowing someone who knew someone they helped get me into the building, and after doing a few weeks of busy work to prove that I was a competent worker, I got my own desk, computer, etc. Then over winter break they hired me to work on the Inauguration, and I ended up co-coordinating tickets sales for that. Along the way I also became friends (unknowingly) with the right people, so I’ll definitely be back with the administration this summer. <P>As for public schools, the problem is a lot bigger than just competition. Funding is a major part of it. Because a school’s budget is determined by property tax in the school’s district, families who can only afford to live in a poor neighborhood pretty much have no choice but to send their children to a horribly under-funded public school. So being poor becomes a vicious cycle because your children are going to most likely be condemned to a poor education. State funding is supposed to fix this problem in the system, but the state currently is simply not giving enough (it’s like 30 some percent right now). Ed believes that before schools can begin to restructure themselves, they need a real budget to work with, and that’s why he wants to bring state funding back up to 50%. Do you really think it’s a coincidence that the larger a budget a school has, the better the quality of the education? The quality of ones public education shouldn’t be based upon how rich you are. His plan for reforming public schools doesn’t end there. He plans on having teachers go through special training and then keeping an eye on them, tracking their progress. He also wants to create programs to get parents more involved in the schools. Reforming the schools truly is one of his top 3 priorities. You can be assured he won’t stop until there are solids results. Personally, I was very impressed this summer when at $5k plate fundraisers where everyone there makes at least $100k a year, instead of trying to convince them that as governor he would make them richer, he only talked about reforming schools. These were people who couldn’t care less, but Ed being too honest as always only wanted to talk about his plans as Governor. If he’s ever in your area (which I suspect will happen quite often), approach him and tell him you want to talk about his plans for public education. He’ll stay until all your questions have been answered. That’s just the kind of guy he is.<P>As for trying to make school’s more competitive through things like vouchers, that’s just simply a pipe dream. Besides taking more money away from already under-funded schools, the money you get from vouchers isn’t enough to cover the cost of private education. In the Philadelphia area, private schools typically cost $8,000-$15,000 a year – Penn State University is less expensive (room, board and books included)! The only place that a voucher would get you into is a Catholic school, and if you don’t want your kids raised Catholic, then that’s obviously not an option.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:14 pm

The average private school cost is much lower than you'd think-The average private school tuition fee in the United States is $3,116, while the average per pupil expenditure in public schools is $6,857. The absurdity of this gap is magnified when one takes into account that private schools have, overall, smaller class sizes and better teachers. Private schools are doing a better job of teaching for less than half of the cost. Yes, already underfunded schools will face short term difficulties-they will have to respond to this and the results will be, as they have in other cases, positive.<P>In Milwaukee, where a school vouchers system is currently in use, the public schools have responded positively to the competition. Much needed reforms have been made, including the following: problem teachers have been “counseled out,” and individual schools were given the task of overseeing hiring, budgeting, and curriculum. Also, specialty programs have been expanded upon, as have before and after school student care programs. Additionally, the half-day kindergarten has become a full day class, and a record number of charter schools have been established. All this has been done with a lessened, not heightened budget, in resonse to the fact that the schools now have to work to keep their students, and are no longer allowed to do whatever with no consequence.<P>You said that only Catholic schools are available for a reasonable price- but once public schools are competing with each other, tuition costs of those schools will be driven down and they will, essentially, become the same as those low-budget cost effective private schools and will be other options. <P>The "pipe dream" of school vouchers will not succeed only if it is limited to the point where it has the few negative short term effects without the major long term positive effects that it is capable of.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby thornhill » Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:00 am

<I>You said that only Catholic schools are available for a reasonable price- but once public schools are competing with each other, tuition costs of those schools will be driven down and they will, essentially, become the same as those low-budget cost effective private schools and will be other options. </I><P>Tuition of private schools in the Philadelphia area increases faster than the rate of inflation despite the economy. It's going to take a many years of competition to lower the price. How could a public school, with a reduced budget ever compete with private schools that are making 15k off each student, and have endowments that rival small colleges? It's not going to happen. Next time you're in Philadelphia, visit one of the public schools in West-Philly, and ask yourself if they'd really be better off with less money.<P>It sounds like you agree that the more money a school has, the better the quality of the education. So what's so wrong about forcing schools to clean up they're act, while also increase funding? Why do people assume that by giving schools more money, that means they can be even less accountable than ever?<p>[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: thornhill ]
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:37 pm

I don't feel like debating school vouchers...I've done it enough in school already. I don't feel THAT strongly about them anyway. I just think the bottom line is that students currently have no options and schools have little incentive to improve, and that something should be done about it. Maybe Mr. Rendell's plan could change that in a different manner than I am suggesting. <P>I also think that the current school system doesn't recognize the differences in students' talents and futures. I, for example, find most of the time I spend in school and most of the school work I do at home to be distracting and inhibitive towards my future (I plan to go into music). Any thoughts here?
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby BenMurphy6 » Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:58 pm

that's the first time i've ever heard a high school education referred to as inhibitive to one's future. <P>brickroot, no matter what field you go into, you're going to need it.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby thornhill » Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:03 pm

<I>I also think that the current school system doesn't recognize the differences in students' talents and futures. </I><P>As boring as it may be, the general purpose of school is to prepare you for college and in general, being able to function in the real world. It sounds like your school simply doesn't offer diverse enough classes and do not have the faculty to teach courses outside of the core: math, sciences, history and literature. I know that my high school was lucky to have someone that could teach college level music theory, so we had a number of serious music courses even though the school was in no ways an arts school (more like an elite Quaker-light prep-school). And the only reason my school was able to snag this teacher, was because they could match what he would be getting paid at a college. <P><I>I, for example, find most of the time I spend in school and most of the school work I do at home to be distracting and inhibitive towards my future (I plan to go into music). Any thoughts here? </I><P>You shouldn't get to set on your future. Shit happens. Look at me, I've wanted to do something in film for a while, and now I'm being fasted tracked for a career in politics. Up until a year ago I was set on getting a masters and PhD in film, now I'm going to start looking at law schools.<p>[ 01-28-2003: Message edited by: thornhill ]
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:57 pm

I agree with you that one should not set one's future prematurely-but I think music is an exception. You've heard the saying, "don't go into music if you can imagine yourself doing anything else." I don't know how many pro musicians have told me this. <P>Academics, there is more room for change I think. Schools do not make an undergrad decide a major right away for academics; at music schools you have to audition in high school for the slot of a music performance major on a specific instrument. <P>Every musician I know who is now a successful professional decided upon it at an early age. I know some unsuccessful pro's who decided too late. I only hope I'm not too late myself.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby BenMurphy6 » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:07 pm

deciding to be a musician early is great (i've known i wanted to be an engineer since i was 10), but it's no reason to exclude yourself from an education. if your focus is too narrow, you'll lose perspective. <P>i think mental exercise is important. at school, i often hear from many of my friends that they think that all of the humanities classes we have to take are pointless and only add to an already heavy course load. but education's real purpose is to teach one how to think, and as i said, if your focus is too narrow, you only get part of the picture.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby thornhill » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:40 pm

brickroot,<P>Not to try and change your mind or anything, but I know quite a few people who started college in music conservatories, but eventually transferred to a traditional colleges because studying only music wasn't what they thought it would be. <P>I agree with BenMurphy6, there's no reason to ever narrow your education.
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby brickroot » Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:28 pm

I am not proposing throwing out my education for music alone; only limiting it. BTW everyone watch Bush's state of the union address?
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Re: What's your area of living famous for?

Postby BenMurphy6 » Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:50 pm

that's what i'm talking about. it's a bad idea. this modern tendency for specialization is detrimental; among other things it leads to further stratification of our social framework. think of the limiting case: a society of idiot savants. it would never happen but it sure is fun to think about.<P>yes, i saw it. i think george is an interesting character, in many ways. that'll be the extent of my political discussion here :cool:
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