OperaTenor

[OperaTenor]

That was a case of MediCal vs. Scripp's. It actually doesn't have bearing on the cases similar to mine. Thanks anywho.

[barfle]

I know nobody provides what I've proposed, and more's the pity. You could subscribe to whatever level of health care you wanted to. Ya pays yer nickel and takes yer cherce.

The problem now is that people think they all deserve the highest level of health care. They don't feel that way about their cable TV - lots of people don't subscribe to all the premium channels. If there were a tiered structure as to what I would be provided and at what cost, I could eventually make a reasonable decision as to what level of health care I thought was appropriate for a middle (ok, a bit past middle) aged non-smoker in a suburban environment. How many times do I think I'll need a full-body MRI? (so far, zero) Sure, it's a fortune-telling exercise, but the purchase of insurance always is.

[jmfryar]

What kills me is that health insurance didn't even truly exist except as an executive perk 25 years ago...

It went to the general public to prey on their fears and the next thing you have is this nightmare mess...

There is a massive case in MDL in Southern FL. right now In Re: Managed Care - doctors basically suing all the health insurance companies to get them to stop certain practices...it's a nightmare just figuring out who is even in it...and the attorneys involved all have their egos and personalities...it's a morass...

Then you get ERISA involved and it goes Federal and it becomes even MORE confusing.

I think I'm more careful with my health WITH insurance than without it, for fear I might get sick or injured and have to wade into these waters...

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by barfle:
The problem now is that people think they all deserve the highest level of health care.

That is exactly what the rest of the industrialized world gets, to the best of my understanding. Why should we not feel entitled to it as long as we're willing to pay for it(which would still be cheaper than what we pay now)?

[barfle]

OT, it's that "as long as we're willing to pay for it" caveat that is the crux. We're NOT willing to pay for it - we want someone else to pay for it, because it's quite expensive. You yourself admit that you want a "single payer" insurance - that payer being the government, which means that the actual cost supposedly gets lost in with all our other taxes.

It's a big "IF," and it's one that I doubt we really mean.

[Marye]

Originally posted by barfle:
The problem now is that people think they all deserve the highest level of health care.

I think you do..... I think all American's do... Why not? I have an access to health care and it is "a right" for us...an equal right.. but then again, folks, we have equal rights to same sex marriages and we decriminalized pot...

[dkm32]

Maybe good Health insurance isn't a God-given right of every American. However, if you watch commercials for health insurance companies, or read the propaganda in ads and brochures, they say you're going to get the best care and the lowest rates. They'll make life enjoyable, take care of you, do everything you could possibly want. They never say, "We'll give you spotty, shoddy, haphazard health care."

So they sell you on this idea of good care for your money.

What do you really get? A chance to fight for every nickel you can get from them. They keep covering less and less, while you get to pay more and more. They don't cover generics, so you get to pay for name brands yourself. And, almost anything that might save your life now a days is name brand stuff. You have to go to their doctors no matter that they are 30-40 miles away and there are plenty of good doctors locally. You have to wait weeks for an OK to go see a doctor for something that could be life threatening, skin cancer for example.

[shostakovich]

A couple of years ago, three (I think) CT HMOs went belly up, leaving their clients swinging in the breeze. This is what George Bush wants for YOU (when your time comes) with his "privatization" of medicare BS.

Medicare, as it is today, is socialized medicine for the older set. The government will not go belly up, and if there are NO changes to medicare, you too will be covered in turn. For all the talk about medicare running out of funds, it can't if the government remains serious about it.

The current change to medicare, very confusing and not due till 2006 adds a totally inadequate partial medication coverage. I would prefer to see NO change to medicare, but a commitment to keeping it healthy.

If anyone would like to know how medicare works, send me a private message. I only learned how it worked when I reached 65. Wish I had known earlier.
Shos

PS: If you had been with medicare at the time of your accident, OT, your legal aggravation would have been eliminated.

[analog]

Seems to me if the lawyers and insurance companies were out of healthcare loop there'd be plenty of money to pay the actual providers. My insurance paid $40,000 or so for my quadruple bypass. That amounted to about 10 years' of premiums, which I have paid for over 30. Operatenor's repairs sound more expensive and I trust he carried uninsured motorist on that motorcycle.

There's a red Mercedes convertible in Miami with personalized license plate "SUE THEM"... I was behind it at a traffic light in Coral Gables, right next to a Homestead farmer in his decrepit pickup truck. The relative contribution to versus out-take from society struck me and I'm still outraged.. you see, I was on my way home from jury duty. Florida's tort system is 99.44% compulsory gambling.

If we're going to socialize medicine we really ought to first suture its cashflow hemmorhages.

[bignaf]

an associate in the firm where I work is working in a case where the plaintiff's lawyers were succesful in getting the settlment they wanted but decided they were supposed to get 100% of the settlement.

[BenODen]

So, what, now that lawyer's getting sued? And the lawyer that works on that will get his cut... AIE. Insanity.

Colorado just got rid of No-Fault Auto Insurance (Medical is covered by your insurance reguardless of fault.) to be replaced by the Tort system. I anticipate normal health care insurance costs going up, since people are probably not going to sue to distribute it back to the auto insurance part. On the other hand, why isn't the police officer's word on the accident's fault good enough, so mostly automatically, the person deemed at fault pays for medical bills? (Ok, their insurance...)

Lunacy.

-Benito

[OperaTenor]

Hi Barfle, I don't have the specifics in my frontal lobe at the moment, but I seem to recall being quoted statistics that showed health care costs in a single payor system were on the order of 35-40% less than what those of us who buy health insurance pay currently. The additional costs we pay now are due solely to the health insurance industry involvement in health care, and to all of the legal problems associated with it. Ask any doctor in this country, and they'll tell you if they didn't have to screw around with health insurance bureaucracy they would have less overhead because they would need two less employees (now don't tell me that would cause an unemployment epidemic ).

If the majority of Americans determined equal access to quality health care should be a right, shouldn't it be so? I feel our leaders are afraid to ask that question, because they won't like the answer they get. Apart from placating the various lobbies and special interest groups who wish for the current system to remain in place, that is.

Mary, Lliam, DB, Ludovica, et. al., have you ever heard of a bona fide case in your health care system where a person who truly needed treatment was denied it, and that it was a failure of the system?

[OperaTenor]

Hi Analog,

I thought I had uninsured motorist on my policy. It was a bad assumption! When I asked for "full coverage", it turns out for a motorcycle that doesn't include UI unless you specifically ask for it. This time around I specifically asked for it.

BTW, for you who don't know, you cannot get medical coverage on a motorcycle insurance policy in this country.

<small>[ 07-15-2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: operatenor ]</small>

[Serenity]

The Insurance Industry probably has created the tallest, most modern and beautiful buildings in the world. All by making a profit out of our fears! Fear of my car breaking down, fear of getting hit by another car, fear of getting sick, fear of not having enough money to pay my bills if something happens to me, fear of dying, etc.

OT, if they are underinsured then they can "repay" you in some other way --

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by operatenor:

Going after the kid and his parents for anything more was determined to be an exercise in futility. My understanding is the way things are structured here in California now, they can shuck and jive legally to the point where I would end up getting less than I would be otherwise due to cost associated with taking it to the successive levels in the legal system.

Hi Serenity, Aside from the abovementioned, the kid & his parents don't have any assets except for a house with almost no equity in it. I don't feel right about kicking them out of their home, especially when it would be for absolutely nothing. Maybe that makes me a sap, but that's how I feel. All I really want out of this right now is for the vultures to back off, everyone else to hold to their commitments, and to put this all behind me.

[Serenity]

OT, you're a good guy! You've got the right idea; it will work out in the end.

[barfle]

I agree that far too much of what should be going to doctors ends up going to lawyers. Plaintiffs are looking for any way they can to win the lottery, and if they can sue a doctor for $2M with a reasonable chance of getting half, then they are millionaires and don't have to worry about their next job.

Juries are also quite eager to award ridiculous damages in too many cases. Insurance companies are seen as the nasty SOBs when they don't pay for things that aren't in the policy. I've heard that this adds something like 30-40% to everyone's medical bills. Just the threat of litigation causes many doctors and insurance companies to pay what's not deserved. I find this disturbing, but don't have a solution.

The giant morass of paperwork that health care providers must deal with is primarily due to the insurers attempting to keep their costs down by limiting claims payouts to specific amounts for specific procedures. Lots of people griping to the government about not being covered and not knowing it (yeah, policies are confusing, but if you just take an hour without the TV on, you can get through them), so lots of rules and regulations pop up that are beginning to threaten the tax code for complexity and stupidity.

These overhead costs could be radically reduced if people paid for their health care, instead of a third party, which is, without apology, in business to make a profit. Unfortunately, most doctors don't know how to handle a check from a patient these days, and won't see you if you don't have insurance. My, how the world has changed, and not for the better.

[Marye]

Mary, Lliam, DB, Ludovica, et. al., have you ever heard of a bona fide case in your health care system where a person who truly needed treatment was denied it, and that it was a failure of the system?

I know there have been cases where a patient was misdiagnosed in the Emergency, sent home and subseqently died... but to be turned away? denied care? No....never...

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by barfle:
Juries are also quite eager to award ridiculous damages in too many cases

These overhead costs could be radically reduced if people paid for their health care, instead of a third party, which is, without apology, in business to make a profit. Unfortunately, most doctors don't know how to handle a check from a patient these days, and won't see you if you don't have insurance. My, how the world has changed, and not for the better.

I keep thinking about the woman who spilled hot coffee in her lap....

[barfle]

Originally posted by operatenor:
[Now I get a mental picture of a husband and wife, sitting down with a hospital loan officer, filling out an application for financing an appendix removal....

Actually, I get a mental picture of a couple who realize that they are going to have to spend some money sometime on health care, and rather than pay premiums to an insurance company that could cancel them at any time, saving 75% of that premium amount in an account to be used just for those medical expenses. If they are really paranoid, they could get insurance for catastrophic care, which would have a high deductible and therefore not be used except in extreme cases and have a low premium.