Welcome Governor Schwartzanegger =)

[redlover1]

Well it's official! Davis has been ousted (Thank God) and the people have spoken! Davis deserved to be ousted for the mess he put California through the last 4 1/2 years and he got what he so richly deserved. One less mudslinger in office woo hoooooo! :p :p

Devin

[TuneGirl]

"...and with my mighty Axe, I Rule!"
I agree there are a lot of "axes" being swung-
First Linda Tripp, then the hanging chads, now the recall!
Soon we will experience the "Govenator" grope his way through the California political scene.

[OperaTenor]

Be afraid, be VERY afraid...

[barfle]

As a recent Californian, I recall how well Governor lowbeam handled the power crisis, and the increases in electrical rates that followed (at least in most of Orange County). The crisis wasn't his fault - the deregulation of the electrical utilities was a farce, for reasons that are a bit complex for a bulletin board. Nonetheless, he was in a position to see it coming and to take action to avoid it. Simply for that, he failed the people of California. Of course, the Republicans selected a vote pariah as his opponent last year, so he would have had to murder someone in order to lose that election.

He was probably a good administrator - he put in a lot of time as a bureaucrat in California, and never really goofed up seriously. But as a leader with vision (not to mention charisma), he lived up to his name.

As far as Arnold is concerned, I don't envy the job he's taken on. He's got a big bucket of crap to clean up, and if he doesn't work miracles, he's going to be in just as much trouble as Gray was. I wish him luck, mostly for all the friends and relatives I still have living in California.

[dkm32]

Originally posted by barfle:
Of course, the Republicans selected a vote pariah as his opponent last year, so he would have had to murder someone in order to lose that election.

Yep. I didn't like the idea of a recall, I mean he was just voted in. But then I thought about last year when I was having to decide who was the lesser of two evils. I didn't like my choices.

I don't know if Arnold will be able to do much because he is outside of the political "I'll-scratch-your-back-if" that makes governments run. However, I think a very loud message was sent to the folks in Sacramento. If you want your jobs never election time, start smarting up!

Davis lost despite his courting the Latinos and Unions; Cruz "Buy Me" Bustimante lost because people didn't like the Indians paying for his campaign. You have to forget about special interests and listen to the mainstream people!
Just me 2¢.

[haggis]

First and foremost I am SOOOOO glad I moved away from California in 1992!!

it will be interesting to see how “Ar-nuld” will handle the “big bucket of crap to clean up” as barfle put it so succinctly.

Despite Dan Maslli’s comment that the election was close, it really wasn’t.

AS took a HUGE chunk of the votes and that should give the democrats running the state legislature some pause, at lest for a little while.

When you further consider that AS and McClintock (Ed. Wasn’t that the name of a John Wayne movie?” between them took almost 60% of the total votes that also has to have some impact on the country’s worst gerrymandered state.

Although, I suspect AS isn’t as much of a Republican as the Republican party would like to believe he is. Many of his positions are left of center and that’s only on the ones he has talked about.

I also suspect it wasn’t JUST family loyalty that put many of Maria’s family on the stage during his acceptance speech. I expected that she would have been loyal to her husband – not to mention relishing the impending role as First Lady of California – but for some of the other Kennedy clan to join her leads me to believe that California’s traditional conservative republicans are going to be a wee bit disappointed.

But….as Donna said just my 2¢ worth

( Damn Donna, it took me 15 minutes to figure out where you found the the "¢" sign. "Symbols" )

[Nicole Marie]

Barfle, you and I agree on something again. What's this world coming to? From New England, we've been enjoying the circus. Davis delt with horrible deregulations and took on issues no one could have controled 100%. (In the East we felt the effects of deregulation in the power industry with the recent black out.) But now you have an actor in office and he's supposed to clean up this mess, it'll never happen. Doesn't any one remember what happend last time we elected an actor into office... Reagan? Ollie North, Iran Contra, the AIDS crisis, yeah he was a winner. I hope Arnold in good for CA, I don't think the state could take another blow.

<small>[ 10-08-2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>

[haggis]

Like all typical examples of American craziness, this will just horrify the Europeans. That alone was reason enough to elect him.

Nicole, while you're correct that Iran contra (and Lebanon, which you didn’t mention)were disasters in the Reagan presidency, President Reagan did spent the Soviets into bankruptcy and ended the Cold War; for that he will always be rated among the top ten presidents.

[Shapley]

I'm still trying to figure out how Ronaldus Maximus [genuflecting as I say that name] is responsible for the AIDS crisis. :confused:
V/R
Shapley

[jmfryar]

I watched the coverage on the Daily Show with John Stewart...it seemed appropriate...

Does it ultimately matter who gets put at the top? The way our government runs is so far removed from the politicians at this point that you could probably run a goat, have it win, and still not have much impact...

Take the Alternative Minimum Tax (please...take it!) as an example...no one seems to know what it is...or how to deal with it. If you use tax prep software, it does the comparison for you and you never see it. If you have your returns prepared, then you probably sign the check and don't know about it...if you prepare your own returns, then you may not even realize you're supposed to do it until the IRS comes a-calling...

Meanwhile, the adjusted rates for AMT go away in 2004 and reset to pre-2003 rates and I pity anyone who makes 60-70K and has three kids...I think it's 40 million Americans are impacted by it, and no one says a thing...

This is a massive, major issue and no one seems to be even vaguely aware of it. There are other issues (Enron / World Com - does anyone without an accounting or law degree actually understand what the hell was going on? Does anyone care? You're not gonna see them getting chased on Cops, or appearing on The Bachelor, so I doubt the general public really is too concerned) subsidized chicken poop energy plans, the federally subsidized Greyhound museum, OSHA policies that would make your hair go grey...

Then again, I doubt half the country could identify the speaker of the house, but they can rattle off the pitching line-up to any of half-a-dozen pro teams.

The point is, as Reagan proved, it doesn't matter who you put into office...the politicians no longer run the country. Special interests and polls, agencies and administrations, big business and unions are the ones writing the legislation and the state and federal governments are merely rubber stamping.

Congress made a big mistake when the approved the no-call law so quickly - they showed how quickly they can get something done when they fell like it.

So go ahead and put him in charge...someone from outside the loop like a Ventura might do Cali some good. Can't do them anymore harm.

Or do I sound bitter?

[Nicole Marie]

Reagan did not allow the CDC to make announcements that AIDS could effect the heterosexual population. As long as it was popping up as a "gay" disease he did not care about it. But memebers of the CDC were telling him it could and would pop up in the heterosexual population and early announcements to the general population could save lives. He turned them down, he only allowed press releases of AIDS to be titled as "Gay Cancer", the rest of the public thought nothing of it. But I'm not letting this thread be turned away from what's it for, California. Back to the west coast.

[Shapley]

But, when you've had a clown for six years, an actor sounds like a refreshing change.

V/R
Shapley

[Valerie]

ok - here i go

i don't believe in recall elections - however, in california, it's on the books, so they can do it, and they did. it's going to be interesting to see if the other states who have this as law in their states follow suit...no, i can't remember the other 8-9 states, i think nevada is considering it though

as for arnold - it's going to be interesting. he is no dummy (just as reagan was no dummy - neither is "W")

i find it really amazing how people gripe about career politicians being in charge, then turn around and gripe (and i am being polite) about how non-career politicians run, and then win elected office. personally, this is the problem -career politicians - ted kennedy, et al., it's time to say bye-bye...

if the people across the atlantic are laughing at us - fine, then we don't need to send them anymore foreign aid - we can use our monies here (our monies are tax dollars, just in case you are confused) if you are going to make fun of us (even california), you don't need our monies - let's feed the children here - what a concept

i wish arnold the best - i just hope the people of california stay involved and hold the legislature responsible (arnold too)- responsibility and accountability - what a concept!!!

just think what a world we would have if elected officials were responsible and held accountable!!! this is inclusive of all nations on earth, not just the united states

oh well - time to get back to work...

[barfle]

I don't view career politicians as inherently evil, although almost all career people tend to rest on their laurels after several years of doing the same thing.

But as far as gov. lowbeam is concerned, he tried to do his job as though it were an administrative position, not as a leadership or management position.

Haggis, I don't regret the move I made two years ago, but I sure miss the weather, roads that don't follow game trails, and a landscape where you can actually see more than 50 yards.

[jmfryar]

Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
Reagan did not allow the CDC to make announcements that AIDS could effect the heterosexual population. As long as it was popping up as a "gay" disease he did not care about it. But memebers of the CDC were telling him it could and would pop up in the heterosexual population and early announcements to the general population could save lives. He turned them down, he only allowed press releases of AIDS to be titled as "Gay Cancer", the rest of the public thought nothing of it. But I'm not letting this thread be turned away from what's it for, California. Back to the west coast.

I'm curious where this info came from...from what I understand the president cannot impact statements from the CDC - it's an independent and autonomous organization. Although it falls under the executive branch (all agencies do) about all the president can do is fire the head - but that's a nightmare in and of itself.

If congress doesn't like something that the agency is doing, then they can make laws to rescind decisions (FCC and the opening of the market) or enforce decisions that the courts have deemed outside their area of control (various OSHA decisions).

Please let me know where you heard that. I'm very curious.

and...back to our regularly scheduled programming

<small>[ 10-08-2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: jmfryar ]</small>

[jmfryar]

whoops

<small>[ 10-08-2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: jmfryar ]</small>

[Nicole Marie]

http://www.thebody.com/wa/spring96/actup.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID31/25.html


http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Ronald_Reagan_Health_Care.htm

Get in touch with Act Up, they are a great watch dog for the AIDS crisis and the LA branch is wonderful at keeping track of US policy and the virus. The articles above are a few of many you can find online about the Reagan policy. Of course it was a big slap in the face when he amitted he was slow in acting in the issue. It took him to be personaly affected while thousands were loosing family and friends and demanding change. Self serving.

[analog]

add a dash of venom to a half truth and you have an absolute truth.

[jmfryar]

uhmmm...I think that militants have a place in the world - they motivate change...but it's a double edged sword. For every group that forces society to pull it's collective head out of the sand and look at what's going on, there's another that fly's a plane into the world trade center.

The links above don't give a good picture...at worst they show that Reagan just was not aware of what was going on. What do you expect from a trained actor?

http://www.musarium.com/aidsdecade/timeline/timeline_body.html

is a timeline, not too favorable, but offering a clearer idea as to what was going on.

Even "Bang the Drum" stated that the CDC reaction was out of fear of losing funding, not any recognized or cognizable agenda. The worst that Reagan could be accused of was ignorance. He worked in a profession with a significant homosexual presence. At no time has it ever been stated that he was homophobic, other than by radicals, and then with tenuous links.

Keep in mind, I am NO fan of Reagan, even slightly, but I don't think he was malicious in any way.

The real issue is the confusion that cause celebre creates among the public and the tie ins of militant radicals and Political Correctness that creates a general ennui.

For instance, for all the breast cancer campaigning and awareness, prostate cancer still kills far more men than breast cancer kills women. Yet we don't seem to have any form of recognition other than the "get it checked" recommendation when we go to the doctor.

See, since it kills middle class white men, who cares? And although it may not be true, it is the prevailing thought...what's the one race and gender you can still make fun of without fear of reprisal? Who's going to sue if someone makes an outlandish statement in the media about middle class white men?

So, the prevailing logic goes, why should they care about anyone else, if no one cares about them?

AIDS is there, it's present, I had a friend die of it in the 90's, but for your average person it's another story in a media filled with horror stories. Kidnappings, Rapes, Fires, Gigli, AIDS, SARS, SIDS - it's just lost in the mix.

The life expectancy charts are about to be configured DOWNWARD for the first time since WWII because the obesity problem is so out of control in this country and they fully expect that children will have all the health issues associated with it. DOWNWARD...by YEARS...

I don't see portions getting smaller or less fatty...

[Shapley]

I'm familiar with ACT-UP. They disrupt Catholic Masses, calling the Pope a murderer for not changing the Church' policy on Homosectuality. They demand that the pope change the policy.

If they knew anything about Catholicism, they would know that that cannot happen. If they want the Pope to change the policy, then they need to pray to God to tell the Pope to do so.

But praying in silence doesn't get them headlines, and without headlines they don't get support from the radicals who send them money. I don't have much use for them.

V/R
Shapley