How would you guys feel?

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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:04 pm

Darn!

Does this mean I gotta stop breathing now? Somehow, I think that will have a negative impact on my health....

:eek:
"To help mend the world is true religion."
- William Penn

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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby piqaboo » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:48 pm

And then there's the ancient pain control technique of Lamaze....
Most people who practice it obtain a surcease of pain within 24 hours of its onset. :D
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby lliam » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:50 am

Originally posted by :
Originally posted by lliam:
[b] You'd call me crazy, right?
No. Gullible.

We've seen this scam before. It isn't new, or ancient, or chinese, or magic. Last time it came through it was ancient Indian lore, time before that it was ancient Egyptian.

Spare me. [/b]
Sooo Sorrrry Selma in San Diego. I forgot to mention, that was an email sent to me through my b.com email A/C, I posted on the BB just to get some reaction and I got it, from you :( . I haven't tried it yet so I won't knock it :p . Of course you would know all about the scams, you, being a, Technical Manuals editor :eek: .
Lliam.

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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby lliam » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:23 am

Originally posted by Selma in San Diego:

We've seen this scam before. It isn't new, or ancient, or chinese, or magic. Last time it came through it was ancient Indian lore, time before that it was ancient Egyptian.

Spare me.
Hi again SiSD, I thought I'd post this email, UNedited and in its entirety from the same person who sent me the email you so criticised. What I would like to know is, if this is a scam, why as it got through the anti scam programme that the b.com tech's staff deployed in all our email A/C's? :confused:
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To: <lliam@beethoven.com>
CC:
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 13:43:12 -0400
Subject: This week in the Health Sciences Institute e-Alert
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This week in the Health Sciences Institute e-Alert

Friday July 09, 2004

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THIS WEEK IN THE HSI FORUM

An HSI member named Alana took her 55-year-old husband to the
Doctor last month. She describes him as "fit and strong," so it came
As a surprise that his total cholesterol and triglyceride levels were
Both elevated. Alana describes herself as "holistically
Knowledgeable," but admits that she's not well informed about the
Significance of high cholesterol.

Alana is also not comfortable with the idea of her husband being
Medicated to address this problem, so she started an HSI Forum
Thread titled "Cholesterol is up, need advise please" to ask other
Members for helpful information. And she came to the right place.

A member named Joyce starts things of with this comment:
"Homocysteine is more important than cholesterol as a marker for
Possible future health problems." To that Joyce could have added
"C-reactive protein and triglycerides" as better indicators of heart
Health. So while the triglycerides may be a concern for Alana's
Husband, his total cholesterol is probably not. (His LDL and HDL
Levels are both within an acceptable range.)

A member named Owen suggests that Alana's husband stay "far
Away" from medication, and he adds this comment about the total
Cholesterol and triglycerides: "Your healthy husband can bring
Those too-high levels down on his own. Don't let some allopathic
Doctor scare you both into taking a toxic prescription drug." As a
Practical step, Owen recommends eating a few garlic cloves every
Day, and offers some instruction on eating raw garlic. After dicing
Up a single, peeled clove: "Put about 5 almonds or other nuts into
Your mouth. Chew, but don't swallow. Now spoon the diced garlic
Into your mouth. Swizzle it all together. Chew thoroughly and
Swallow. The almonds eliminate the burning sensation of the
Garlic."

And vampires won't be a problem either! A member named Cedy
Suggests using another botanical – Arjuna – which has been used
For centuries to promote heart health in Ayurvedic medicine.
Miroslava recommends Hawthorne berry tea. And a
Member named Laura writes, "I have read that a glass of carrot
Juice every day will lower cholesterol."

A member who goes by the initials J.W. says, "Taking one-quarter
To one-half teaspoon of cinnamon works just as well as the statin
Drugs in lowering cholesterol and triglycerides as well as blood
Glucose. Look up the research, which was reported about January
2004. Cinnamon is cheap – about $3 for a pound."

In the e-Alert "Bucking the System" (12/15/03), I told you about
The very research that J.W. mentions. A U.S. Department of
Agriculture study of 60 type 2 diabetics revealed that one-gram of
Cinnamon taken daily, over a course of 40 days, improved
Management of blood sugar levels, as well as triglyceride and
Cholesterol levels. One gram of cinnamon is less than half a
Teaspoon.

Finally, a member named Craigo has this suggestion: "If you want
The low-down on the principles of cholesterol and what it means
And doesn't mean, I strongly suggest first reading Jon Barron's
Baseline of Health article on the subject. He totally cleared it up
For me." Jon Barron, of course, is an HSI Panelist, and his report,
Titled "The Cholesterol Myth" (5/24/04), is an excellent
Introduction to the many misconceptions about cholesterol. You
Can find that report in the Baseline of Health Newsletter archives at
jonbarron.org.

Other topic titles on the HSI Forum this week include:

* Health food
* Cataracts
* Microwave dangers
* After stroke therapies anyone?
* Hearing disorders
* Diabetes 2

To join in with any of these discussions, just go to our web site at
Www.hsibaltimore.com, find your way to the Forum, and add your
Own insights and comments about health, nutrition and natural
Treatments.

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Without your glasses or contact lenses...and without surgery
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http://www.youreletters.com/t/22230/2602999/300/0/
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Saturday, July 3, 2004
Avoiding heart disease may be easier than you think
While millions busy themselves with pushing their cholesterol
Numbers down, William Campbell Douglass II, M.D., explains that
The more important issue is the control of damaged, oxidized
Cholesterol, which may be managed with one remarkable formula
That combines vital nutrients along with the antioxidant he calls the
"Mother Antioxidant."
http://www.youreletters.com/t/22230/2602999/301/0/
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Monday, July 5, 2004
Black Listed Cancer Treatment Can Save Your Life
The formula for cancer prevention has been available for decades,
But this information has been blocked by the very agency that is
Designed to protect your health - the FDA. We'll tell you how a
German research scientist discovered a combination of two natural
Foods that may prevent and even cure cancer.
http://www.agora-inc.com/reports/FCBK/W600E750/home.cfm

Tuesday, July 6, 2004
WHO Let the Dogs Out?
Some comical media melodrama ensues when the World Health
Organization releases new guidelines for the "proper use" and
Regulation of complementary and alternative medicine. We'll look
At some of the overblown news coverage of these guidelines, and
Then answer the obvious question: What's wrong with this picture?
http://www.hsibaltimore.com/ea2004/ea_040706.shtml

Wednesday, July 7, 2004
Rolling with the Breaks
There are plenty of good reasons to avoid extended or everyday
Use of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). Now a
New study demonstrates that if you fracture a bone, an NSAID is
Not the best choice for managing pain. Fortunately, there's a
Natural alternative that's much safer.
http://www.hsibaltimore.com/ea2004/ea_040707.shtml

Thursday, July 8, 2004
Let the Sun Shine
If you have type 2 diabetes or a pre-diabetic condition, you may be
Deficient in one vitamin that could make a big difference in your
Overall health. We'll tell you how to determine if you have a
Deficiency and the best dietary sources of this nutrient that may
Play a key role in glucose metabolism.
http://www.hsibaltimore.com/ea2004/ea_040708.shtml

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Get real results guaranteed, with a powerful, doctor-developed
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Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:43 am

Iliam, you've mistaken "scam" for "spam". Not equivalent terms.

"Scam" is "swindle", "fraud"; in this case I am suggesting that the whole magical breathing thing is a hoax, perpetrated by the author of a book, for the purpose of inducing the receiver of the e-mail to purchase the book. The only life certain to be improved by the book sales is the author's.

"Spam" is either a potted lunchmeat, or unsolicited advertising through the e-mail. B.com has a program filtering the e-mail designed to reduce or eliminate spam in the e-mail addressees boxes.

It is true that if one does not breathe, one will die. Cease to be. Terminate. However, if simple diaphram breathing were enough to guarantee prolongation and improvement of life, OT would have no medical issues, singers would all live to be a thousand, and the brass section would be immortal. Since I know of a number of dead vocalists and brass players, this seems not to work.

The entire "newsletter" you posted seems to exist for the purpose of selling holistic health improvement products. Selling being the important term here.

BTW, you can stop being condescending about my profession. We tech-translators have our uses, and without us you'd be trying to figure out what that wretched mess the engineers wrote down really means, all by yourself.

I'd encourage you to practice your breathing (which will oxygenate your blood very nicely but will not make you perfectly healthy), practice some critical thinking skills, and check your definitions occasionally.
>^..^<
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby RC » Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:10 am

Iliam,
I got it! :)
A man is the sum of his actions, of what he has done, of what he can do, Nothing else.
Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby monkeymd2b » Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:33 pm

There was a south park episode about holistic medicine. I think it was Kyle that was in renal failure and his mom was convinced by some neighbor to try holistic stuff instead of the needed kidney transplant. Okay, not the most scientific or educational but pretty damn funny. I highly recommend it after reading that long post selling herbs and whatnot as opposed to the "toxic medications" that allopathic docs recommend.

Remember, the difference between a medication/holistic healing agent and a toxin is dosage.
Simple words to live by...

When someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, but it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and whack them on the head.
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:10 pm

Deadly Nightshade is an herb. So are foxgloves.


Breathe, breathe, breathe Selma - soon another crayon drawing will cross your desk..... :p
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby lliam » Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:37 pm

Originally posted by RC:
Iliam,
I got it! :)
Good on ya RC. ;)
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby barfle » Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:42 pm

Originally posted by Selma in San Diego:
BTW, you can stop being condescending about my profession. We tech-translators have our uses, and without us you'd be trying to figure out what that wretched mess the engineers wrote down really means, all by yourself.
I could use one of your type to figure out what the wretched mess patent attornies write down. Of course, I'm one of those engineers who has written user manuals, and IMNSHO, I'm a heck of a lot better at it than most marketers who attempt the task. :eek:
--I know what I like--
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby lliam » Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:00 pm

Originally posted by Selma in San Diego:
.

"Spam" is a potted lunchmeat.
BTW, you can stop being condescending about my profession. We tech-translators have our uses, and without us you'd be trying to figure out what that wretched mess the engineers wrote down really means, all by yourself.

I'd encourage you to practice your breathing (which will oxygenate your blood very nicely but will not make you perfectly healthy), practice some critical thinking skills, and check your definitions occasionally.
No need to be Facetious Dago I mean San Diego, sorry Selma, (and so modest with it, mmm)

Spam, Arrrrrrrrggggggh!

Anyhow here's another one of those emails, do you think I should trash anymore I receive?


Double-Edged Wonder

Health Sciences Institute e-Alert

Wednesday July 14, 2004

**************************************************************
We hope you enjoy this free e-letter from the Health
Sciences Institute e-Alert. You have received this
e-mail because you have either signed up for our
e-letter through a promotion on an affiliate website,
subscribed to one of Agora Health's print newsletters,
or visited our website and signed up there. If you're
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make sure to add this new address to your "friends"
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**************************************************************

Dear Reader,

The era of modern pharmaceuticals began in 1900 when the first
aspirin tablets were manufactured by a German company called the
Friedrich Bayer Corporation.

Ninety years later, the Harvard Medical School research known as
the Physicians Health Study concluded that men who take aspirin
on a regular basis may significantly reduce the risk of a first heart
attack.

Over the course of those nine decades, aspirin gained a reputation
as the wonder drug of the 20th century. And while aspirin has
relieved many a headache and does seem to provide heart health
benefits for some, a new study reveals that certain heart patients
may actually be at greater risk of heart attacks if they use aspirin.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Benefit vs. risk
--------------------------------------------------------------------

After a patient experiences a first heart attack or stroke that's
triggered by thrombosis (a blood clot in the heart or a blood
vessel), many doctors prescribe an anti-thrombotic regimen of
aspirin or warfarin, a prescription blood thinner. But the risks and
benefits of these therapies have not been fully explored.

As reported in the July 2004 issue of the American Heart Journal,
UK researchers at the University of Hull divided 279 subjects from
the Warfarin/Aspirin Study in Heart failure (WASH) into three
groups: one group received 300 mg of aspirin daily, one received a
standard daily dose of warfarin, and a third group received
placebo. Each of the subjects had experienced either heart attack or
stroke, prompted by thrombosis.

After an average follow up period of more than two years, the
researchers found that neither the aspirin nor the warfarin therapies
provided any greater protection against death, nonfatal stroke, or
nonfatal heart attacks than the placebo. Subjects that received
aspirin therapy, however, were nearly twice as likely to suffer a
heart attack or stroke as were those who took warfarin or placebo.
Gastrointestinal problems were also elevated in the aspirin group.

In an interview with Reuters Health, the lead researcher of the
study, Dr. John G. F. Cleland, stated that any theoretical benefit of
using aspirin after a heart attack, "is outweighed by real evidence
of harm."

A larger study – modeled on this one – is currently in the planning
stage.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Putting on the breaks
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, this isn't the first time we've encountered problems
with the wonder drug of the 20th century in the context of heart
health. In the e-Alert "Under the Gun" (11/10/03), I told you about
a French study that showed how severe angina and fatal heart
attacks might be prompted by the sudden halt of regular aspirin
intake.

In reviewing more than 1,200 cases of coronary episodes,
researchers found 51 patients who suffered heart attacks or other
severe coronary problems less than one week after they stopped
using aspirin. Subjects with a history of heart disease were at
particularly high risk.

One of the troubling concerns of this outcome is the fact that
patients preparing for surgery are regularly advised to discontinue
aspirin therapy to avoid excess bleeding during their operations.
The French team told Reuters news service that doctors should not
advise their coronary patients to stop using aspirin, and even stated
that aspirin therapy "cannot be safely stopped in any case."

How's that for a "wonder drug"! You begin taking a daily aspirin
to protect your heart, and once you start, you're hooked! If you
stop, you stand a good chance of prompting a dangerous coronary
episode.

Aspirin is generally regarded as so benign that most people would
find it hard to imagine that you could actually experience
withdrawal symptoms by quitting an aspirin regimen. But
suddenly, that simple daily aspirin doesn't seem quite so benign.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nourish your heart
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Ironically, many people who are taking a daily aspirin to help their
heart may already be getting plenty of heart attack protection from
the foods they eat.

In the e-Alert "Pain Takes a Holiday" (9/8/03) I told you about a
15-month study of almost 2,000 subjects that showed how those
whose diets included the highest fruit intake had more than 70
percent reduced risk of heart attack and other cardiac problems
compared with those who ate the least amount of fruit. On average,
for every additional piece of fruit consumed each day, subjects
showed a 10 percent reduction in coronary risk.

And vegetable intake produced a similar effect. Subjects who
consumed vegetables three or more times each week had
approximately 70 percent lower heart attack risk than those who
ate no vegetables at all.

These heart protective benefits are most likely due to flavonoids,
the substance that gives fruits and vegetables their color.
Flavonoids have both antioxidant and anti-inflammatory qualities;
two benefits that are believed to help curb chronic diseases,
including heart disease, lung cancer, stroke, asthma, and type 2
diabetes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Handle with care
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone is different, and each of us responds differently to any
kind of supplement or medication. So one person may reap
benefits from a daily aspirin, while another won't. One person may
suffer aspirin's side effects, while another never has a problem. But
when problems do occur, the results may be quite serious and even
fatal.

So if you're currently taking a daily aspirin for heart health, talk to
your doctor about these new aspirin studies – especially if you've
already experienced a heart attack or stroke.

**************************************************************
FIVE HIDDEN DANGERS OF YOUR MORNING SHOWER

You wouldn't knowingly bathe in toxins every morning...or set
out to ravage your lungs and sinuses, irritate your allergies,
aggravate your skin, or...perhaps most horrifying of all...

Willingly increase your risk of cancer... would you?

Visit below to find out how to purify your water of chlorine
and the dangerous chlorine by-products that are putting your
health at risk.

http://www.youreletters.com/t/24938/2602999/345/0/
(if you can't open here use the HTML links listed below)

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...and another thing

Your average Joe probably doesn't give much thought to the
difference between systolic and diastolic blood pressure
measurements. If you happen to be one of those Joes, here's your
chance to enjoy a quick Introduction to BP 101, courtesy of HSI
Panelist Allan Spreen, M.D.

On an HSI Forum thread, a member named Rob posted this
question:

"Someone mentioned that the difference between your systolic and
diastolic measurements were more critical to predicting a heart
attack than the BP reading alone. They went on to say that if the
difference is 65 or more, you're in for a heart attack. There are
times when this difference for me is above 65 (73 was the worst).
Should I get my will in order? Actually, Jenny, I was hoping you'd
be able to get one of your experts to comment on this and save me
from worrying myself into ulcers."

Between systolic and diastolic, your systolic pressure (the first
number in the blood pressure reading) is generally considered the
more important indicator of heart health – especially for those age
50 or older. As for the importance of the difference between the
two pressures, I asked Dr. Spreen to explain and here's how he
answered Rob's question:

"What you're talking about is called 'pulse pressure', or the
differential between the high reading and the low one. Nothing
guarantees that you'll have (or not have) a heart attack. Many heart
attacks occur with low serum levels of cholesterol, for example, so
don't head into ulcer state yet! Also, the powers-that-be are now
telling us that any pressure above 120/80 up to 140/90 is 'pre-
hypertension' and they're even suggesting that we get started early
on drug therapies, which sounds suspiciously like an attempt to
bail out the drug companies to me.

"However, physiologically a high pulse pressure may indicate that
the blood vessels are not as 'elastic' as they might be, implying that
they are not in peak condition (healthy, elastic arteries stretch to
handle pressure changes and therefore lower the 'tops' and
'bottoms' of big peaks). Therefore, you do want to respect pulse
pressures hitting 75, not by worrying yourself into ulcers but by
getting educated on actual ways to treat the situation.

"Get a serum homocysteine level and a C-reactive protein, then
talk with your doc. Those are the most sensitive tests, and can give
a good baseline of where you are as you take steps to improve.
Then, if they indicate a problem, get started on what can fix
'em...folic acid, vitamin B-6, vitamin B-12, maybe some
magnesium, vitamin C (gram doses), and a good multi withOUT
iron, for a start. Then, go to www.acam.org and learn about IV
chelation.

"That way you'll have a proactive avenue of attack against a
defeatable enemy, instead of sitting home swallowing antacids and
worrying yourself to death!"

If Dr. Spreen has helped save Rob from both a heart attack AND
an ulcer, I'd say that's a pretty good day's work.

To Your Good Health,

Jenny Thompson
Health Sciences Institute

**************************************************************
Remove the threat of toxic 'squatters' in your body

It's uncomfortable to think about 'smart,' drug-resistant
parasitic creatures securing themselves inside our digestive
tracts - and perhaps spreading to vital organs, even invading
the brain with destructive results. But it's far worse not to
deal with the distinct possibility that you - and your loved
ones - may now be infected with parasites sapping your health
and well-being.

Discover the common symptoms of parasitic infection and find
out how to protect you and your family.

http://www.youreletters.com/t/24938/2602999/341/0/
(if you can't open here use the HTML links listed below)

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Sources:
"The Warfarin/Aspirin Study in Heart Failure (WASH): a
Randomized Trial Comparing Antithrombotic Strategies for
Patients with Heart Failure" American Heart Journal, Vol. 148,
No. 1, July 2004, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Aspirin Not Good for People with Heart Failure" Will Boggs,
M.D., Reuters Health, 7/7/04, reutershealth.com
"Halting Aspirin Suddenly can Cause Heart Attack" Reuters,
10/29/03, reuters.com
"More Research Showing Fruit and Veg Benefits; No Further
Explanation" NutraIngredients.com, 9/2/03, nutraingredients.com

AOL HTML links
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<a href="http://www.youreletters.com/t/24938/2602999/344/0/">FIVE HIDDEN DANGERS OF YOUR MORNING SHOWER</a>
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Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:00 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
Deadly Nightshade is an herb. So are foxgloves.
Thank you, Piq. Perfect illustrations! Both lovely herbs and magnificent traditional poisons and herbal medicines. Still used, too: atropine and digitalis, if I remember correctly.

[quote]Originally posted by piqaboo:
[b] Breathe, breathe, breathe Selma - soon another crayon drawing will cross your desk..... :) :)
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:04 pm

Oh, lliam, yes. You should unsubscribe from that so-called newspaper and take up doing crossword puzzles instead. Far more useful and better for your mind.

Barfle, I would gladly help if I could with the patent attorneys but I suspect that they're being intentionally obscure. Engineers do it by accident when they're trying to explain but lawyers take classes in obfuscation.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby RC » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:24 pm

After an average follow up period of more than two years, the researchers found that neither the aspirin nor the warfarin therapies
provided any greater protection against death, nonfatal stroke, or nonfatal heart attacks than the placebo. Subjects that received aspirin therapy, however, were nearly twice as likely to suffer a heart attack or stroke as were those who took warfarin or placebo. Gastrointestinal problems were also elevated in the aspirin group.
I find this one interesting. I'm quite familiar with warfarin (a.k.a. Coumadin, the rat poison) as a loved one is on a daily regimen. I'm going to investigate this.

The breathing thing was pretty funny.
Although, my mother wears magnetized shoe inserts... :roll:
A man is the sum of his actions, of what he has done, of what he can do, Nothing else.
Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
RC
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:45 pm

I found it interesting that the same issue claimed taking aspirin would kill ya and stopping aspirin would kill ya.

Seems contradictory. But was amusing reading, and had I time to play, would send me off to read some "traditional" scientific journals to see what I've been missing.

The downside to traditional science is the widespread reliance on "unproven" being equal to "doesnt work", when in fact what it means is "we havent looked at it very carefully yet".
Sometimes it takes a lot of anecdotal evidence to get people interested enough to set up formal clinical and laboratory studies.

In the meantime, I intend to continue breathing!
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby barfle » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:49 pm

Originally posted by piqaboo:
In the meantime, I intend to continue breathing!
Many of us appreciate your intentions.

And a belated congratulations on your promotion to first chair. I would expect that your time for posting is only a month or so away from dropping radically.
--I know what I like--
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby piqaboo » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:21 pm

LOL! I expect you are correct!
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby lliam » Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:00 am

Selma in San Diego
1st Chair


posted 14-07-2004 21:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, lliam, yes. You should unsubscribe from that so-called newspaper and take up doing crossword puzzles instead. Far more useful and better for your mind.

Touche, En Garde, "Ha haaaa!" <--- Usually I say this.
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby haggis » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:05 pm

"nonfatal heart attacks"


aren't they all nonfatal to begin with?
Haggis

A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing
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Re: How would you guys feel?

Postby barfle » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:43 pm

Haggis, unfortunately, no.

The most common symptom of heart disease is sudden death.
--I know what I like--
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