What does it take to change an opinion?

[piqaboo]

We have many vigorous and well reasoned, occasionally emotional discussions on this board. I've yet to see one result in a changed opinion (perhaps I am unobservant).

Was there a time when someone presented an argument that changed your firmly held views on some topic?
Care to share?

[RC]

barfle has changed his mind regarding national healthcare. He told me in private that he TOTALLY agrees with everything I say now.

[barfle]

RC has changed his mind regarding national healthcare. He told me in private that he TOTALLY agrees with everything I say now.

[RC]

Excellent. We're in agreement!
See how easy that is people. Sheesh.

[OperaTenor]

I'm not in agreement with Barfle as to RC's gender.

[treebeau]

Won't ever happen.

Words I go by:
A man/woman convinced against his/her will, is of the same opinion still.

Regards,
Tim B.

[piqaboo]

I used to be strongly pro death penalty. I'd argue with anyone to justify its use. Now Im pretty firmly against it.

The change was quite abrupt, and two things brought it about.
1) a cost analysis of long-term incarceration with a respectable number of appeals but not incessant (ie - typical of life sentences).
This info started me thinking about the general worth to society of the two options. However, I still found some crimes to be so heinous that they deserved the death penalty.
Indeed, I still do. But,.....
2) punishing the wrong party. One day a public speaker pointed out that the town fathers of Salem documented their witch trials most carefully because they were proud of their rigourous testing, logic and application of law, and wanted to strut a little bit while setting an example/precedent for future generations.
That, right there, did it.

The Salem town-fathers used the best accepted "infallible" science of their time, just as we use ours. And now we know fingerprints are not 100% reliable (depends heavily on quality of print, # of points of ID required by the test lab, etc), we're releasing convicted folks who are now shown not guilty of the crime based on DNA evidence, etc.
Currently we state huge odds that 2 DNA's will fingerprint the same, but again, how many points/markers do we test? Within a racial group, there are more similarities than between groups, for many markers. So, markers need to be very carefully selected, and as many as feasible need to be considered - and up goes the cost.....

So,theres the story of one opinion changed.


BTW - Im w/ OT - I disagree w/ barfle re RC's gender. Go for it barfle, change my mind!
:p :p

[barfle]

I have also changed my mind on the death penalty. At one time I was pretty ambivalent about it, feeling it didn't do much good or much harm. I felt there was no loss to the world when Gary Gilmore was shot by the state of Utah.

Then I saw some people protesting that they were innocent of the charges, and that the wrong person was being executed. I also saw how blind the law can be regarding exculpatory evidence. The idea that you had their chance at trial and blew it, so we're going to off you in spite of knowing it's wrong simply fried any idea that there were adequate safeguards to make certain the wrong person wasn't getting the ultimate punishment.

I've also change my mind on the Republican Party. My politics are pretty similar to Barry Goldwater's were, but when Richard Nixon imposed wage and price controls to try to curb inflation, that just about cooked any idea I had that they actually stood for something.

[RC]

Three big issues I've changed my mind on:
1. I honestly think parents have a right above and beyond their own childrens rights, to know if their daughter is seeking an abortion. This is different than the way I used to feel. Don't want to derail anything so I won't go into details but it has to do with government interfering in child rearing. I'm still not in concrete here though.

2. I was all for invading Iraq until we went ahead without proof or UN. Made me suspiscious.

3. I also changed my mind about the death penalty.
Partly because the older you get the more you realize no one is infalible no matter the title.
Groups, i.e. a jury is even LESS likely to be infalible. You get that mob mentality and pier pressure going...
If you want to see if someone can change anyones mind, hire Gerry Spence. Anyway, I like to keep up with what he's doing (he was my neighbor as a kid). Reading his opinions and observations regarding the death penalty will certainly make you think twice.

[Shapley]

I used to be a Democrat until I got my first paycheck.

[OperaTenor]

I've changed my opinion of the Iraq war and GWB's administration.

Iraq - I trusted our leaders when they told us of what they suspected, even in the face of UN opposition. I, too, am now suspicious(read - greed/oil).

GWB - I researched the man at the outset of his term. He seemed to have personal integrity, and seemed to have grown up from his irresponsible youth. He now seems to have no spine, and bends to the will of his morality-legislating, greedy staff.

I was like Barfle - long ambivalent about the death penalty, and have become ardently against it, for many of the above stated reasons by several.

I was first a Republican, then a Democrat, am now NPA, pretty much disenchanted with the entire two-party system. The more I learn, the more it seems this sytem's primary function is to perpetuate itself, and that has less than nothing to do with my or your welfare, and everything to do with greed.

[RC]

Hey, I don't know about the rest of you folks but I think we get some better-than-average, intelligent debate here at BBB.
I don't think anyone has completely changed my opinion but I learn an awful lot, gain insite, and excercise my brain.
Sometimes, you can just start with bending an opinion.?

[mmichaelson]

I haven't changed my opinions much, but it helps to gain insight to other people's opinions and the logic behind them. . .

[barfle]

I feel I must amend my position on the death penalty a bit. Note that the reason I'm against it is that I feel it's not adequately safeguarded to eliminate the possibility of an error.

That being said, I will shed no tears when they off Richard Ramirez (the "night stalker") in California or John Mohammed (the "DC sniper")in Virginia - two people who went on murderous rampages near my home, and of whom I find no doubt that they did the deeds of which they were convicted.

[piqaboo]

Yeah, I dont feel remorse for Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer either. But I still find the risk unacceptable going forward.
Much as I think serial and rampage murderers deserve to be treated in kind. sigh. It used to be the most republican part of me. I miss it. ;(

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by barfle:
I feel I must amend my position on the death penalty a bit.

Sheesh! All I did is say I agree with you. You don't have to go changing your mind on account of that, do you?


:p

[barfle]

The part about where I felt it didn't do much good has to do with the idea that it is a failure as a deterrent to the commission of capital crimes. Fear of death really isn't a factor for many criminals.

The part about where I felt it didn't do much harm has to do with the idea that the people being executed are subhuman parasites with no redeeming social value, so there's no harm in eliminating them from society, even if it's a prison society.

The part where I changed my mind was due to the fact that I believe it HAS been doing harm, by killing innocent people.

The amendment is that I am certain that those two low-life subhuman parasites are not innocent.

[piqaboo]

Agreed: Fear of death is not a deterrent. Because: people are sure they wont be caught.

[barfle]

From the latest Dilbert Newsletter:

SCOTIA, NY – Bank teller and Renaissance man Mark Bunter changed his political viewpoints yesterday. It's the first known change of opinion by a person who had previously made up his mind. "I was doing my research before the election, paying attention to all the informative ads on television, and suddenly I just changed my mind. It felt good!"

Bunter later changed his mind back to his original views, noting that he had been right all along. Still, it was a first, and Bunter has been asked to give inspirational talks to corporations on the subject of pretending to embrace change.