Moral Values?

[RC]

originally posted by FunkyMike: I'll give you an example. My son and I were watching the baseball playoffs the other night, when a preview for "The Grudge" came on.

FunkyMike, if you're still reading, I hope you don't mind me using your posts...again.

I'm crossing threads here because I know we have another thread about censorship but this just cropped up this morning giving me an opportunity I just couldn't pass up:
web page

The NFL is apologizing for the wrong commercials

The NFL is once again under fire for nudity.

First there was Nipple-Gate, when Janet Jackson "accidentally" exposed herself to thousands of fans during the Super Bowl halftime show. CBS paid a hefty fine for that one. The latest incident concerns a commercial that aired prior to the Philadelphia Eagles-Dallas Cowboys "Monday Night Football" game.

As with the first incident, I turned away at exactly the wrong moment, and now I am left to sit and wonder how bad it really was. All of the accounts I have read basically say the commercial was an advertisement for ABC's new hit show "Desperate Housewives," which featured the Eagles' Terrell Owens and an actress on the show, Nicollette Sheridan.

Sheridan and Owens are in an empty locker room, and she is wearing nothing more than a towel. She asks him to skip the game for her, and he replies, "Aw, hell, the team's going to have to win without me." At some point, the towel dropped, and the angle showed her lower back. Of course I could not tell you when this happened, as I did not see it.

On Tuesday, the NFL and ABC apologized for the commercial because the placement was inappropriate, and it was not suitable for the "MNF" audience.

Not suitable? Wait a minute, what audience are they talking about? Is this the same audience that watches at least one commercial from some erectile dysfunction company per football game?

Funny, I have never heard the NFL issue an apology for those commercials. It would be more understandable if the ads were a little more discrete as to what the drug is for, but they are not.

...

You get the idea.

This is probably going to step on a few toes but here goes: how long has it been since there were "moral values" reflected by professional sports?

Fights, rapes, murders and attempted murders, drugs, gambling and rewarded by six figure incomes paid for by , guess who? ... so...don't support it. Don't watch it on TV, don't buy tickets, don't buy jersey's etc...


ok, go ahead and start throwing, I'm ducking.

[mmichaelson]

No need to duck alone. . .I'm with you on that one, RC. Why should they get paid millions of dollars to perform a sport and behave badly at the same time. If you don't like what they do, don't support it, end of story.
<ducks with RC>

[OperaTenor]

RC, you're my hero.

Again.

[barfle]

Other than Indy car races, the last time I spent any of my money attending a major sporting event was before the baseball strike.

Minor league baseball, auto racing, curling, high school sports, are all a lot of fun, and a hell of a lot cheaper (except for the Indy 500) than watching millionaires try to protect their investments.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

You forgot the lawnmower races, and competitive fence-painting, barfle!

In the spirit of fairness, though, I want to point out that the NFL doesn't owe any apologies for the tacky commercials; it's the network and the stations who charge the sponsors for the commercial airtime. The NFL gets paid by the networks. I doubt that the network clears commercials with any of the NFL folks.

[RC]

Selma,
I agree. Kind of.

The article was just the first one I picked up that was relevant to the incident.

The fact that the star of the commercial was an NFL player isn't really the NFL's fault either (although, don't they monitor their players and have rules regarding advertising & behaviour?, I honestly don't know). (That's the "Kind of").

My point is that if you are concerned about moral value in your television viewing, professional sports is probably NOT a good choice to begin with.

If you are subjected to a boob flash, an advertisement for a scary movie, or sexual inuendos, that would be just a second reason not to watch sports.

[RC]

It is a habit of mine to take huge questions/problems and analyze them piece by piece then put them back together so I can understand.

I have to know how and why things work.

It occured to me that my own moral code was fashioned that way over time.

Morality then, for me, goes into little details too. Courtesy is obviously part of morality, but even smaller details.

Considering how my actions effect others and if the effect is acceptable or not is a big part of who I am.

Problem is, it makes me second guess everything I do. Many people mistake that for being meek or indecisive and that IS a mistake. When they find out they've made the mistake, it usually means we've had a raw confrontation.

Another problem I face with my morality is expecting an awful lot from others who aren't as introspective. I realize we aren't all built the same way.

The biggest drawback though is being aware of my own guilt. Everyone has it all the time. Being aware of it and controlling it like a dietary supplement is tougher (on the surface), than ignoring it.

I guess I'm curious to know if other people have issues with their own ideas or practice of morality. (Other than the obvious slip-ups of bad behaviour).

<small>[ 11-19-2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: RC ]</small>

[piqaboo]

yup.

[RC]

lol
Yup.

[barfle]

Originally posted by RC:
Another problem I face with my morality is expecting an awful lot from others who aren't as introspective. I realize we aren't all built the same way.

The biggest drawback though is being aware of my own guilt. Everyone has it all the time. Being aware of it and controlling it like a dietary supplement is tougher (on the surface), than ignoring it.

I guess I'm curious to know if other people have issues with their own ideas or practice of morality. (Other than the obvious slip-ups of bad behaviour).

When it comes to my expectations of others, I gave up preaching a long time ago (unless asked by OT). If people are screwing around on their spouses, as long as it's not with me or my spouse, it's none of my business. They have their own level of respect for their promises, and while I don't believe people should fool around, basically it's none of my business.

I would certainly turn in a thief or a murderer to the authorities, and if I get shafted in a business deal I'll do my part to get what's due me, but by and large, I have no interest in reforming drug users, adulterers, or eaters of anchovies :p .

When it comes to my own morality, I know I'm quite fallible. The usual victim is my wife, usually through negligence (I never do anything to harm her intentionally, but I'm one of those lazy, indolent slobs who happens to have found an incredibly tolerant life partner). I've been known to get angry, and even take advantage of people who seemed like they should have known better (but not for a long, long time).

And I use the boss's computer on the Internet. Supposedly that's frowned on, but what they really care about I make sure I get done.

[piqaboo]

originally posted by tiger-scratcher:
...but by and large, I have no interest in reforming drug users, adulterers, or eaters of anchovies

Thank God! Because I had no intention of giving up anchovies, regardless of my regard for you, barfle! :p And Im very intolerant of intolerance.

[RC]

"I would certainly turn in a thief or a murderer to the authorities, and if I get shafted in a business deal I'll do my part to get what's due me, but by and large, I have no interest in reforming drug users, adulterers, or eaters of anchovies"

Likewise. I rarely have issues with people unless I'm personally effected.

For example:
If someone tells a particularly offensive ethnic joke, I can get into trouble. If the joke was just for me (vs. to a crowd where I can just walk away), I come right out and say "I actually find that offensive instead of funny".

Imagine saying that to a friend or co-worker who thought you were like minded and were expecting a laugh.

Even if I don't say anything, I have a really hard time getting around it next time we meet.

I may never get over the feeling of distrust if I think someone shows signs of thoughtlessness, hypocrisy and other stuff that I am guilty of on occassion, even if I don't remember what put it there.

[GreatCarouser]

"Compassion is the basis of all morality."
Arthur Schopenhauer

[GreatCarouser]

"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt toward people we personally dislike."
Oscar Wilde

"Immorality: the morality of those who are having a better time."
H. L. Mencken

"What is morality in any given time or place? It is what the majority then and there happen to like, and immorality is what they dislike."
Alfred North Whitehead

[GreatCarouser]

"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
Arthur C. Clarke

[GreatCarouser]

"Do not be too moral. You may cheat yourself out of much life so. Aim above morality. Be not simply good; be good for something."
Henry David Thoreau

[RC]

"... And Im very intolerant of intolerance." from Piq

and

"Compassion is the basis of all morality." from GC.

I guess that's the crux.

And I guess the bad joke example is a good one. Let's say for instance, the joke is in reference to a particular race being a constant welfare drain.

So the person telling the joke deserves your compassion and the people implicated in the joke deserve your compassion.

If you speak up, are you intolerant?
If you shut up, are you lacking compassion?

I guess I have less tolerance than most

[RC]

Tee hee...you actually quoted one of my kin...

and Thoreau is a personal favorite

nice quotes

[GreatCarouser]

OK I give up. Which one's kin?

[Serenity]

What is the next step here? We could probably list the values that are important to us and come to a consensus. I'm sure that some of those values have different degrees of relevance to each of us. Personally, I am partial to the pursuit of Wisdom, Peace, Justice and Love; everything I do can be categorized under these four. It was not intentional, it just seems like that in retrospect. If we could externalize and define our internal motivations, we can polish them further and set them as a standard to guide our future behavior and build character.