Today's a national holiday(in Texas)

[Trumpetmaster]

OT,
If you look at the old bugs bunny cartoon, tom and jerry, popeye, there was alot of fighting there too.

[OperaTenor]

Oh yes, but there were other elements as well(like lots of shtick). Have you ever seen Pokemon? All they do is fight, everything is centered on fighting, with no purpose other than to advance through the Pokemon ranks. It doesn't even have comedy going for it.

Bugs Bunny - shtick
Tom and Jerry - mouse triumphs over cat
Popeye - saves the maiden in distress

Even elementary points like those are missing from Pokemon - completely. It is the foremost example I know of cartoon programming for marketing's sake.

There are cartoons out there that still follow the more traditional formula, albeit with a lot of marketing emphasis. SpongeBob is one. I've already gotten Altoid the entire first season on DVD, and can imitate all of the regular characters rather well, except Sandy(she's got kind of a Lisa Simpson voice).

Captain: "Are ya ready, kids?!"
Kids: "Aye, aye, Captain!"
Captain: "I can't hear you!"
Kids: "aye, aye, Captain!"
Capyain: "OOOOOOOH, Who lives in a pineapple under the Sea?"
Kids: "SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!"
Captain: "Absorbent and yellow and porous is he!"
Kids: "SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!"
Captain: "If nautical nonsense be somethin' you wish!"
Kids: "SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!"
Captain: "Then drop on the deck and flop like a fish!"
Kids: "SPONGEBOB SQUARE PANTS!"
Captain: "SpongeBob Square Pants, SpongeBob Square Pants, SpongeBob Square Pants, SpongeBob - - - Square Pants - - - !"
(sung with a pirate growl and accent)

Sorry, couldn't help m'self....

Another advantage of not having commercial TV come into the house is the elimination of commercials themsleves. Have you observed a child watching commercials during a kid's program these days? I watched a perfectly normal five-year-old girl recite over and over, "I want that.", as she watched commercials, with absolutely no regard to what the product was being advertised. Research has shown young children are particularly influenced by visual stimulus, and the marketers targeting children have done their homework in that regard.

I want my child to think, not to be another consuming conformist zombie.

Not that I haven't given this any thought...

[Trumpetmaster]

OT,
Never watched Pokemon so I will have to defer to your expertise on this subject,
But there is too much violence on TV today.

This is why I believe our youth is doing what they do today.

Priorities of life are backwards.

End of editorial.

[Shapley]

OT,

Actually, Pokemon is a little more than just cartoons packaged to sell video games and other merchandise, although that is the ultimate goal. The pokemon trainers who love and respect their pokemon are ultimately successful, those who mistreat their pokemon get their comeuppance.

There's also a lot of environmental awareness junk thrown into the mix. Some of the pokemon are spawned from pollution, others are angry because of it.

Then there's "Team Rocket", the evil nemesis. They usually show up every episode, and are thwarted. They provide the comic relief, as well.

I'm not saying it's good television. I'm just saying that there's more to it than you suggest.

If you want to see a cartoon with the wrong message, try Rocket Power. The premise there seems to be that this kid can break all the rules, betray his friends, and get himself, his friends, and everyone else around him into very dangerous situations, but since he's so good at surfing, skateboarding, etc., it's all okay. I haven't seen the redeeming factors in that cartoon yet.

V/R
Shapley

<small>[ 01-25-2005, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

I think I'll stick with SpongeBob...



Isn't "good television" pretty much a contradiction in terms?

[GreatCarouser]

OT, is Beemer perching on your shoulder while you do your 'pirate growl'?

[OperaTenor]

Not this time...

[Shapley]

OT:

Re:Isn't "good television" pretty much a contradiction in terms?

No, I have a "good television" at home. The DVD is plugged into it so I can watch The Lord of the Rings extended editions.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

Hi Shap,

Have you also shunned cable/satellite, etc.?

[barfle]

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
I prefer to think you do it because you know I'm man enough to take it.

That goes without saying.

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
As for gainful employment, Altoid(and she's easy by all accounts) isn't even crawling yet, and I consider her heavy employment, beyond gainful. Perhaps it's a byproduct of the information age, but both Piq and I find ourselves expending a lot of energy making sure Altoid has the proper this and that to ensure she develops at her full potential at all times. I know this hasn't always been the case, that all our parents weren't nearly so focused on our developmental minutae, and we seem to have turned out okay in general. But with the plethora of information and all of the research done on the subject of child development and parenting available these days, there seems to be a significant amount of pressure, peer and otherwise, to make sure a child has every tool in their inventory usable to face the challenges of the world today, and be emotionally and physically secure.

Makes me tired just thinkin' about it! :whew:

Not complaining, mind you.

I'm reminded of something I had to tell my mother one time when she had spend about an hour apologizing for all the "mistakes" she made while I was growing up - Children don't come with manuals. My guess is number 6 will have as many surprises as number 1, and unless there's serious injury involved, we tend to get over it.

I'm a little too old for Dr. Spock's advice, so my parents got their advice from their parents, their church, and their friends, none of whom really claimed any expertise.

So, from one who admits he's shunned the experience of child-rearing, I would say not to let too much of that sort of thing worry you.

[OperaTenor]

Thanks. I don't worry beyond working to do the best I can for and by her. I feel the world a child grows up in today has changed vastly from what you and I had to deal with, and I want to prepare her for it as much as possible. By bringing her into the world, I've made a life long commitment to that.

[barfle]

Originally posted by OperaTenor:
Another is the Happy Meal. This is very clever marketing. Do you realize the HM is more expensive than the individual items, excluding the toy? My sister took two of our nephews to McD's once, and the younger of the two wanted a HM. My sister, being quite pragmatic at the moment, did the math and got him the individual items because they were cheaper, not realizing the cheap little toy was the point as far as he was concerned. He threw a fit because he didn't get the toy, and they ended up sitting in the car to finish their meal.

Ahh, but cheap, short-lived toys are quite collectible, and are bound to increase in value.

Oh, that's right, your TV is disconnected so you can't watch Antiques Roadshow.

[piqaboo]

Tell ya what, barfle.
You collect em and ship em to us. We'll store 'em in the attic. We'll split the profits if they ever sell.


Yeah, where IS that darn manual that comes with each child, assigned by serial number? The one that says "while many children thus and so, your make and model this and that. So at 15 minutes past the hour, perform the following sequence of events, and your child will grow into a blissfully happy self-realized adult." I want my copy, darn it!

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by piqaboo:
Yeah, where IS that darn manual that comes with each child, assigned by serial number? ...I want my copy, darn it!

Still working on this one. There are a lot of options on the two basic models, and the engineers keep changing the specs, and the marketing guys won't get back to me, and my loggie can't find any of the part numbers!

It's making me crazy.

[OperaTenor]

Making?!!

[Shapley]

OT,

RE:Have you also shunned cable/satellite, etc.?

There's no cable available in the boonies, where I live. We have satellite, though, which is how I've come to be familiar with the lousy fare the darn thing has to offer. I prefer a good book and a CD, but my son likes to watch the thing, so I have to watch a little to monitor the crap he is watching.

Besides, as you will learn when Altoid starts talking, if you want to make sense of what they're saying, you'll have to watch enough TV to pick up the lingo.

V/R
Shapley

PS: Learn how to work the parental controls, and lock out Ed, Edd, and Eddie from ever being able to be viewed on your television, if you want any sense of sanity in your home!

[lioness]

what's wrong with Ed, Edd & Eddie??? i miss that cartoon!

i haven't had TV or cable for almost 8 months now. and y'know what??? i hardly miss it (except for Adult Swim)

[mmichaelson]

Lioness, I would die without my nightly dose of Futurama and The Family Guy. My husband would die without Aqua Teen Hunger Force and Sealab 2021. . .

We feel your pain!

[OperaTenor]

Thanks Shap.

I've had TV coming into the house all my life up until about six months ago. I feel like a great burden has been lifted, and there's so much more time to do things(like post!).

I've had direct TV most of the last ten years, so I'm fairly familiar with how the parental controls work when/if we ever get the like again.

[piqaboo]

Selma, LOL!!!!!

I miss the odd episode of Law & Order, and occasionally (every 6 months or so) surfing cable to find some funky show (or to see one episode of the latest blockbuster so I know what folks are talking about at work: Ozzie, American Idol, etc).
The TV has one great strength - it comes in small doses. I could (theoretically) watch for 30 min, and still be doing something like sewing, paying bills, etc during the ads. I have a heck of a time turning off a movie part way thru, but I rarely have the time energy or patience to sit still for 2 whole hours when surrounded by the to-do list and temptations of my own home.

I deem access to TV or to previously seen movies essential to surviving the first 6 weeks of (first time) parenthood. I have no idea how the preceding 4 bazillion generations did it. They are gods. Crying gassy baby - walk it, talk it, pat it, rub it, and keep one eye & both ears on the TV to stay sane.