Pope John Paul II

[zlosin]

Call all in for a rehersal, get your pipes warmed up.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-eur/2005/apr/01/040100684.html

[zlosin]

The media is reporting the Pope has died.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.

[Trumpetmaster]

PSIP,
What media...
Searching the internet and everything says
he is hanging on.

TM

[Trumpetmaster]

Just saw CNN and they are reporting that the Pope is still alive. Heart and Brain are functioning.

[Trumpetmaster]

I did just read that Frank Perdue passed away today at 84.

Here is the URL:


http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/01/news/newsmakers/perdue/index.htm?cnn=yes

[GreatCarouser]

Google news has the Pope hanging on at 2:05PM EDT

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

CNN reports that the Vatican has denied reports that the Pope is dead. Also, CNN is televising a rosary going on in St. Peter's square.

[zlosin]

Well that was a big media screw up, Now Fox news has a banner says "Pope not dead" geez

sorry for the false report.

[lliam]

Lux aeterna luceat eis, Domine.
cum sanctis tuis in aeternam,
quia pius es.
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine,
et lux perpetua luceat eis.
Amen

[lioness]

Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:
I did just read that Frank Perdue passed away today at 84.

Here is the URL:


http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/01/news/newsmakers/perdue/index.htm?cnn=yes

i wonder if it was bird flu?

[lioness]

this in on CNN... Pope John Paul II's breathing is becoming shallow and several of his major organs -- including his kidneys and heart -- are growing weaker.


this is very bad news. unless we see a miracle, the Pope may only have but few hours left.

may his travels to the arms of his creator be swift and peaceful.

-lioness

[zlosin]

I have been watching Fox CNN MSNBC all afternoon. This truly is sad. It started to become a media feeding frenzy but since that false report, the coverage seems to have taken on a serious tone. (thank god)
I pray that he is peaceful. He was a great man.

[OperaTenor]

Why is it bad news the Pope is dying?

The man is 84 years old. I hope to be fortunate enough to live that long.

I wonder how many 84 year olds would have these extreme measures taken for them if they were in JPII's condition. I don't begrudge it to him, it's just another example of subjectivity in health care.

I've heard of lots of cases where the elderly are denied treatment(I'm referring to treatment that at least affects the quality of life) that's deemed as being excessive given their age and life expectancy. In this "culture of life", why is that permitted, especially with all of the recent rhetoric about the sanctity of life?

[Shapley]

OT,

I don't think is so much that it is bad news, as it is that it represents a time of uncertainty. We like things to be predictable. It's predictable that the Pope will die. It's much harder to predict what he successor will be like, and what effect that will have on the role of the Church in the world.

It is my understanding that the Pope refused to be taken to the hospital for treatment, not wishing to undergo extreme measures to keep him alive. This is in keeping with Catholic views on the sanctity of life, especially since he was able to make the request on his own. It is acceptable to refuse treatment. It is not acceptable, once treatment has been given, to "pull the plug". It is also not acceptable to refuse to provide necessary treatment from a person who is not able to, by themselves or through their appointed representative, has not requested that such treatments be refused.

The Catholic church has established very clear guidelines on this, and I'm certain the Pope will follow those guidelines himself (particularly since he established many of them himself).

V/R
Shapley

[piqaboo]

Leaving me still curious.
Yesterday the Pope had a nasal feeding tube in place.
What happens if his brain fries while that tube is in place, and he "goes Terri Shiavo"?
How does the church handle the next 15+ years?

The pope stated catholic doctrine would not permit removal of the feeding tube, so its quite possible he'd live on in a PVS (unlikely given his current medical cascade, but possible).

What does the church do in those circumstances?
Who "runs the show"?

[Marye]

It takes 20 days to choose a new Pope? Is this right Shapley? Do you think there is a chance they might choose an African for Pope?

<small>[ 04-01-2005, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Marye ]</small>

[Shapley]

I'm not sure what the timeframe is. Here are some links that will explain the election. I didn't recall John Paul II's selection as taking as long as John Paul I's, but that was quite some time ago.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12270a.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11456a.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04192a.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02ud.htm

Anyone except a heretic, a schismatic, or a female can be elected Pope. Even a married man can be selected. I've no idea who may be selected. Unlike other elections, there is no list of party favorites, no lobbying, and no primaries, so the choice will likely be a surprise to everyone, including those who will claim, after the fact, to have known it all along.

V/R
Shapley

[Shapley]

Piq,

There is a hierarchy in place to keep things running in such an event, but there would be no Papal Decrees until a new Pope is selected, or the old one recovers. This would be sort of like a long Supreme Court recess. Matters could be decided, but no finality would be reached until the Pope makes a proclomation.

Unless, of course, God himself appears and makes a declaration of judgment. (And I'm not trying to be funny.)

V/R
Shapley

[Marye]

Well it was a surprise last time, wasn't it? JPI died quite unexpectedly, as I recall, didn't he?