Pope John Paul II

[piqaboo]

My first set of questions come from honest curiousity. I'm not Catholic. I have no idea how the church would handle this. post-post: <Thanks for addressing this. So essentially policy would freeze til he died or God spoke [and was accepted by the Church as God and not as a false prophet etc]..... interesting to contemplate>

This next question however, comes from a different place.

Anyone except a heretic, a schismatic, or a female can be elected Pope. Even a married man can be selected.

Even a gay man?

<small>[ 04-01-2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>

[Shapley]

Marye,

Yes. I can't recall the exact timeframe, but I believe it was about a month after his selection.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

I find it a little contradictory that refusing life sustaining treatment isn't forbidden. It seems close to suicide, looking at it from the "life at all costs" perspective applied to other areas, such as contraception. Isn't that a matter of taking his life into his own hands, and aren't we not supposed to do that?

[Shapley]

Piq,

From what I've read, yes, even a gay man.

Some historical accounts suggest that that has happened before, unless you mean "gay" to mean openly homosexual, instead of merely homosexual.

I, myself, doubt that such accounts are true.

V/R
Shapley

[Shapley]

OT,

Not sure. I'd have to read the encyclicals to know the whole story. I've tried to summarize them to the best of my understanding.

My wife and I plan to visit the priest to find out the requirements, in order to do the proper thing with our son (my stepson) when the time comes.

V/R
Shapley

[piqaboo]

MArye,
I recently read that the conclave must begin no sooner than 15 and no later than 20 days after the Pope passes.

Until this Pope, the cardinals met in very uncomfortable conditions to inspire them to make a decision in a timely manner. This Pope caused [controversial] more comfortable accomodations to be built, and then tried to balance this by setting a limit on how long deliberations could take.

I think its designed now so that the new Pope would be selected no later than a month after his predecessor died.

<small>[ 04-01-2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>

[zlosin]

I just found an interesting story from the BBC published in 2001.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1178910.stm

This answers some questions about who might be the next Pope.

Of course my favorite is Zenon Grocholewski, with that first name, he's my boy.

(thats my first name )

[shostakovich]

As an equal-opportunity non-believer, I have to say this pope was the best thing to happen to the Catholic Church in my lifetime. He will be missed.
Shos

[Shapley]

This link, which I posted previously, offers a pretty good summary of how the church deals with the incapacition, death, and selection of the Pope:

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02ud.htm

The funeral lasts nine days, and apparently the selection does not begin until it is completed.

V/R
Shapley

[zlosin]

Thank you Shapley, this is very interesting reading (allbeit a little technical and long).

I wish the newsies would read this so as to deliver correct information. I guess thats asking for them to be pretty and smart. fat chance

[OperaTenor]

This has apparently just happened:


Pope John Paul II dies at 84


May he rest in eternal peace.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by piqaboo:

This next question however, comes from a different place.

[b]Anyone except a heretic, a schismatic, or a female can be elected Pope. Even a married man can be selected.

Even a gay man? [/b]

If I understand the Catholic position on "gay" correctly, there is no such thing. An individual who feels sexual attraction to anyone other than a church-approved spouse is experiencing an occasion to sin. Acting on that attraction outside a church marriage is sin. End of discussion.

(Unless, of course, you are a Catholic priest enmired in one of the nasty scandals of the past several years. Then, you are an inconvenient scandal that the diocese can't afford and are transferred.)

I think gay men (and women, too, for that matter) are supposed to repent, resolve to avoid sin, and become chaste and celibate. Remember, self-denial and patient suffering are virtues.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Oh, I forgot that line where I point out that the above does not match my personal beliefs. I will refrain from further cynicism, for now.

[GreatCarouser]

As Popes go this fellow was among the best if not the best...I trust he rests in peace....

[bignaf]

I admire this pope for believing that truth is not dictated by popular opinion.

[lliam]

He loved people of all races.

Let eternal light shine upon him O Lord,
with Thy saints forever,
for Thou art merciful.
Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord,
and let perpetual light shine upon him.
Amen

[barfle]

My Catholicism ended before John Paul II became John Paul II, so his insistence on ancient codes of moral conduct didn't really impose on me at all. No, that's not why I stopped being a Catholic. That's another discussion entirely.

However, I have to admire his active participation in the fall of the Soviet Union and Communism in Eastern Europe. As a supposedly non-political leader, he wielded enormous influence, and certainly rose to meet the challenges that faced him, his homeland, and the world. He seems like the right person at the right time, unless you are Mikhail Gorbachev.

It's difficult for me to criticize his teachings on morality, either. The Pope has never been in charge of dogma, never been one to define right and wrong. Those teachings come from history. For Catholics who truly believe, there are many activities that simply cannot be condoned. A lot of them have to do with sexual activity, and while we may snicker at the idea of celibate men trying to tell other men where to park their boat, the only time there is a question of interpretation is when a new situation arises.

I saw a TV news discussion show over the weekend, and one of the commentators criticized the Pope for not allowing contraception to young women. He never really saw it as his decision.

While I often disagree with the stance he took on issues, I always understood why he took that stance.

I understand that his was the third longest papacy in history.

[kfire]

I dont know if you have noticed...

The president of the nation that was raised up by those who fled the religios persecution seeking freedom, present at a pope's funeral

Kind of odd if you tink about it :confused:

[treebeau]

Heard a funny joke about how Prince Charles postponed his wedding to Camilla Parker Bowles by a day so that he could be in Rome to see JPII.

So, he was able to be with 2 different corpses in 2 days.

Regards,
Tim B.

[piqaboo]

kfire,
I dont see why its odd. The President of (currently) the worlds most powerful country paid homage to the leader of the worlds largest organization, and who had great impact in ending "The" Cold War.

My history stinks - but I think many groups of mutually intolerant different religions fled to the US. Hence the religion thing in the constitution that isnt about Church and California, Delaware etc, even tho the word most commonly used to describe it is "state". <see other thread>

BUT, if you'd like to expand upon your thought, you might even convince me. Haggis managed it once, tho I shall never admit to it nor tell him so!