Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

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Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby DavidEB310 » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:12 pm

While thinking of Green Beer two days from now, we should remember the following:

(Sorry, but I hold an English degree. Shakespeare is in my blood.)

From: http://astrology.about.com/od/oddstrange/a/idesmarch.htm

If you've heard the warning, "Beware the Ides of March," then it's probably due to the works of William Shakespeare. The Roman ruler, Julius Caesar, was assassinated on the Ides of March - March 15, 44 B.C.E. In Shakespeare's play Julius Caesar, a soothsayer tells Caesar who is already on his way to the Senate (and his death), "Beware the ides of March." Caesar replies, "He is a dreamer; let us leave him. Pass."

According to historical writer C.J.S. Thompson in The Mystery and Romance of Astrology, the unidentified soothsayer from Shakespeare's play was a Roman astrologer by the name of Spurinna. According to Thompson (and confirmed in Plutarch's account of the story written in 75 A.D.) it was sometime prior to the fateful day of March 15 that Spurinna had first given Caesar the famous warning to "beware of the Ides of March." The astrologer, Spurinna, had warned Caesar that on the Ides of March, he would be in great danger.

If, however, Julius Caesar took care on that one day - then all would be well.

According to Plutarch's account, Caesar had previously made the wise decision to stay within the safety of his bedroom chambers on the 15th of March. However, Caesar's "friend" Decimus (Albinus) Brutus (not Marcus Brutus) managed to convince him that the astrologer's warnings were nothing more than superstitious foolishness. So Julius Caesar decided to attend the Senate on the 15th of March. On his way to the Senate, Caesar "accidentally" met up with the astrologer. Upon seeing the astrologer, Caesar confidently informed Spurinna: "The Ides of March are come." Spurinna answered, "Yes, they are come, but they are not past." Later that day - on March 15, 44 B.C.E - Caesar's enemies assassinated him in the Pompey theater, at the foot of Pompey's statue, where the Roman Senate was meeting that day in the temple of Venus.

Another theory, as to why Caesar might have seemingly been ignoring the ominous warning of Spurinna, is that perhaps Julius Caesar got the dates of the warning mixed up. He may have been thinking that the Ides of March fell on the 13th.

In the ancient Roman calendar, each of the 12 months had an "ides." In March, May, July and October, the ides fell on the 15th day. In every other month, the ides fell on the 13th. The word "ides" was derived from the Latin "to divide." The ides were originally meant to mark the full moon - but since the solar calendar months and lunar months were of different lengths, the ides quickly lost their original intent and purpose.

Using this theory, forgetful Caesar would have been very careful and stayed home on the 13th of March, but on the 15th of March his guard was down.

<small>[ 03-15-2005, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: DavidEB310 ]</small>
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby sadie » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:25 pm

"et tu", David?
Caesar had a lot to keep an eye out for. I would guess as an average,everyday Joe and non-emperor to boot...you can look forward to drinking that green beer in peace!
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby DavidEB310 » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:32 pm

True Sadie.

The only ones who have to beware of Brutus is Caesar and Popeye, but at least Popeye had his spinach (there's that green connection again).
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby Nicole Marie » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:17 pm

Thanks David for the post! (I am no where near your degree but I too love Shakespeare!) Today I came in and said, "Happy Ides of March" to Dan, Scott and Holden. They all looked at me funny and I had to explain it to them... poor boys... I think they took pride in avoiding Shakespeare during high school. :roll:
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby mmichaelson » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:20 pm

I took three specialized Shakespearean english classes in college with the editor of the World Shakespeare Bibliography, I am with you on a hefty appreciation of that particular literature!

Thanks for the post!
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby sadie » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:26 pm

I agree Saxy and HRH.... the literary origins and perhaps most notorious case of "backstabbing" is a great story.

How about some real life, present day "Ides of March" stories?
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby Nicole Marie » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:43 pm

Bush and the American public... oh wait that's a different thread. ;)
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby sadie » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:48 pm

Ha that's good! Actually Nicole, that very theme has infiltrated virtually every "thread" of American life.....

How about workplace or homefront daggers?
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby FlyingSorcery » Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:52 pm

No clever story, tho' by David's count my husband proposed, many years ago, on the Ides of November (and a friday no less). Cool.

In celebration of this day, my daughter and I are having Caesar Salads for lunch.
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby OperaTenor » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:53 pm

William and Julius have helped me with many a crossword puzzle.

:D
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby shostakovich » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:20 pm

Hi David. Thanks for the very interesting Caesar lesson.

But: "The only ones who have to beware of Brutus is Caesar and Popeye"

I think Popeye's nemesis was Bluto (a name also used by John Belushi in Animal House). I could be wrong.
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby Shapley » Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:48 pm

Shos,

In the earlier cartoons, he was called Bluto. In the later cartoons, he was known as Brutus. I believe I heard that he Brutus was the name Segar gave him, but the person doing the voice for Popeye chose to call him Bluto, because it sounded better.

I think the name changed about the same time as Popeye changed into the modern dress white uniform, from the old "Donald Duck" Suit.

V/R
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<small>[ 03-16-2005, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby Shapley » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:06 pm

I stand corrected. Bluto was the original name, but was owned by paramount. When Popeye moved to King Features, he was renamed Brutus. Apparently, for a short while, he had went nameless, while they fought over the rights to "Bluto"

V/R
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby hal 9000 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:31 pm

Here's the skinny on the Bluto/Brutus mystery:

Popeye first started out as a comic strip put out by King Features Syndicate. The character of Bluto (his original name) appeared once as a minor character in that comic strip.

Popeye appeared in a Betty Boop short in theaters. Before long he became hugely popular and his own shorts began appearing in theaters under Paramount Studios. The character of Bluto became the main villian in these shorts, no longer a minor character.

So later when King Features Syndicate starting making made-for-TV cartoons of Popeye, they seem to have forgotten that Bluto originally appeared in their original comic strip. They for some reason thought he wasn't created until the movie shorts, which were under Paramount. This meant that they thought the character of Bluto belonged to Paramount by copyright law, so they changed the name to Brutus.

Thus, if you see a cartoon with Popeye vs. Bluto- it was originally made for the theater. Popeye vs. Brutus- it was made for the TV series.

Furthermore, the characters didn't look exactly the same. Observe:

<img src="http://www.everwonder.com/david/popeye/b&b.jpg" alt=" - " />
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby shostakovich » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:37 pm

Thanks much for the Bluto-Brutus information. It's important to get these things straight.
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:39 am

[quote]Originally posted by Nicole Marie:
[b] Bush and the American public... oh wait that's a different thread. :D :D :D

I think it's actually the point at which all threads converge....
"To help mend the world is true religion."
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby DavidEB310 » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:06 am

Awesome Popeye Trivia all!!!

Now, if only Caesar had been carrying a can of Spinach...(the earliest version of the Caesar salad?).
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:13 am

Mornin Dave,
Amazing stuff!
What did we do before the internet?
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby OperaTenor » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:41 am

Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:

What did we do before the internet?
I think it was called. "The World Book Encyclopedia."

;)
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Re: Have we forgotten? Beware the Ides of March!

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:53 am

OT,

only 29 posts to go for your 5K!

TM :)
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