Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby DavidEB310 » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:14 pm

treebeau,

I think he also trembled and had man-breasts.

B.com is now officially under scrutiny of the U.S. Government for connection to Steroids. I'm going to have to glue my speakers shut!
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby sadie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:38 pm

"This is something these multi-billion dollar baseball teams should be handling on their own. This is just more sensationalist diversionary crap to take our attention away from the real issues that are costing people's lives and liberties."
_________________________________________________
I couldn't agree more, OT
And of note, steroids have the opposite effect on women and include:

· Growth of facial and body hair
· Male pattern balding
· Development of Adam’s apple and smaller breast size

Apparantly some of the women body builders are using them...
And tres amusante!! Mr Tres Belle-
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:42 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OperaTenor:
[QB] [rant] Why are we wasting our tax money on this?

Because the kids who look up to these cheaters feel it is OK to use steroids and wind up killing themselves in the process.
----------------------------------------------

This is something these multi-billion dollar baseball teams should be handling on their own. This is just more sensationalist diversionary crap to take our attention away from the real issues that are costing people's lives and liberties.

It wouldn't be so stupid if major league baseball was footing the bill for all of this largesse instead of the taxpayers. [/rant]

OT - I agree with you they should pay for this!

------------------------------------------------
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:38 pm

Sadie Lady, It really depends on what drug is taken. Too many people use the term steroid and do not realize there are a variety of levels. If some one takes HGH (Human Growth Hormone), then yes you can have liver failure, if you have a family history of cancer HGH can speed up then development of the cancer and a variety of other issues can happen. HGH also builds up your fatty deposits. IT DOES NOT CAUSE MEN TO GROW BREASTS. It instead builds your fat deposits and in men they are located behind you muscle wall in the chest. Men who build this will see and increase in fat between the armpit to the chest muscle. As all women know, breasts are a lot more then just fat. It may look like breasts but it is really not.

Professional bodybuilders who take HGH do it under the supervision of a doctor who can prescribe other drugs to balance the effects. Remember: Bodybuilders depend on this for their living; this is how they make their money and do it with a doctor to oversee the effects.

If a man takes testosterone (many people think of this as a steroid but forget it is a natural part of the body) then he will bulk up with no harm done. His nuts do not shrink (they actually get larger).

If a woman takes test then yes she will develop the characteristics of a man. But the ABA and other female bodybuilding groups have changed the rules for women. They now call for a less "male" look and a more female build. Due to the new rules less women are taking test.

Now the area on anabolic steroids is a whole world in it's self. This is one area that you MUST have a doctor oversee your use. The average person who uses them (not bodybuilders but baseball players) do not understand that you have to cycle them. If you don't cycle then you can run into problems.

Then there is the world of Methylted, Andro, Roids and on and on. Most people like to classify the entire issue and really have no clue to level and use.

It does seem baseball is having issues. But "steroid" use in the bodybuilding world has been very regulated so that it is safe. There are even competitions for "natural" bodybuilders, those that do not do "steroids" and competitions for those that do. Folks get their panties in a twist over this but never do the research. The US bans the use of it. But many countries allow the use with the supervisor of a doctor.

The problem is young kids and those not in the bodybuilding world do not educate first. They take it and want to see immediate results. They don't cycle, see a doctor and the other things you must do to keep it safe.

There is also a large movement within the bodybuilding world to put in place legal regulations. If it becomes legal and you can only get it from a doctor then you will not have kids doing it, doctors can over see the side effects, people will not turn to the black market to get it. The stuff on the market is usually from vets, or from Mexico and is dirty. The dirty stuff can cause so many more problems then the drug itself.

Steroids actually have good side effects like:
Positive affects on mood patterns
Positive affects on sleep patterns
Positive affects on muscular development
Prevention of symptoms of arthritis and depression
Strengthening of bones and prevention of thinning of bones, aka osteoporosis

Here are some good web sites for bodybuilding:

Female: http://female.bodybuildbid.com/index.html

General: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html

Listen, don't get me wrong, a person can cause serious problems if they do this incorrectly. But if it was regulated legally by a doctor it can be very safe.

<small>[ 03-18-2005, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby sadie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:52 pm

Well sometimes it's nice to be in the US of A, and following the practice guidelines. In fact most folks around the world come to the US for the superior medical care- I don't see it the other way around. I prescribe steroids all the time for medical conditions, but would never, nor would any legit colleague, prescribe steoids for "bulking up".
___________________________________________

"Steroids actually have good side effects like:
Positive affects on mood patterns
Positive affects on sleep patterns
Positive affects on muscular development
Prevention of symptoms of arthritis and depression
Strengthening of bones and prevention of thinning of bones, aka osteoporosis
_________________________________________
Perhaps you're thinking of estrogen, Nicole, the above (except muscle mass)is just not true for anabolic steroids.....

And sometimes it's nice to be in the US of A, and following the practice guidelines. In fact most folks around the world come to the US for the superior medical care- I don't see it the other way around. Just because it's done in other countries doesn't make it necessarily better medical practice. I prescribe steroids all the time for medical conditions, but would never, nor would any legit colleague, prescribe steoids for "bulking up".
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby bignaf » Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:56 pm

Anabolic steroids are illegal with out a prescription and doctors don'e precsribe them foe body building, YRH, it sounds as if you're condoning the use of Anabolic steroids "if you see a doctor". a law abiding doctor won't help you there. I also find your comments about "most people" not understanding steroids interesting, since some of your "explanations" put you squarely in that group of people.
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:01 pm

That's not what I said. I did not say just because other countries do it so should we. People will use steroids in this country and to correctly protect them well, maybe they should be regulated through a doctor? Bodybuilders must use them for their line of work (if you think their line of work is crazy, well that is a different topic). If a doc does not want to perscribe... that is their choice. But people can have bad reactions if they do not educate and take them with some supervision. Bulking up happens, no way around it but at least have it done in a safe/supervised way.

Note: And yes estrogen is taken by bodybuilders too. There is a large variety to pick from and people pick based on their body/genetics and goal to acheive. No two bodybuilders will take the same combo.
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:09 pm

Big, I personaly think anabolics are a waste. There are many other drugs out there that get you the same result, safer. I am just raising the question that these are drugs that if done wrong can cause harm. So maybe a regulation of it through doctors would be safer. We have million dollor industries that use these drugs, bodybuilding, now baseball etc. They are not going to go away. So to protect people from harm and to educate them on safe use, maybe some oversight from a doctor would be the safest way?
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby treebeau » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:10 pm

I started taking estrogen, but it gives me cramps, makes me want to shop, and eat a lot of chocolate! ;)

Regards,
Tres Belle
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby treebeau » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:12 pm

Ahhhhhhh, Bach!
Now THERE'S a composer with wonderful Man Boobs! :D

Regards,
Tres Belle
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby treebeau » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:13 pm

...not to mention a shrinking Schuppanzigh! :D

Regards,
Tres Belle
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby sadie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:16 pm

Yeah Nicole, us New Englanders can be a pretty puritannical lot, plus we talk funny! And with botox for the wrinkles, implants to augment this, and liposuction to take away that, and even leeches are back in- what's with the steroid fixation? Don't know, it's just the standard of practice and I'm sure you can find someone to do just about anything.

Being skeptical of most ingested substances (except Martinis and a good glass of wine now and then) I go with what nature has kindly bestowed and with those I am in the position to advise well..."the cure shouldn't be worse than the problem" usually applies.

I don't know a lot of female bodybuilders...but do deal with a lot of very competitive athletes. Now I'll be sure to ask them more about steroid use...Thanks for the heads up!
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:17 pm

funny....

:roll:
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:21 pm

Anytime Sadie. And you bring up a great point. People mod their bodies in all ways. Plastic, implants, lipo etc. I've heard of terrible stories of the body attacking breast implants and women having organs shut down due to the rejection. People will not stop doing these things but at least lets make it safe.

<small>[ 03-18-2005, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Nicole Marie ]</small>
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby DavidEB310 » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:38 pm

Everyone -- Have a great weekend. The work week is finished. See ya Monday!
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby ScottB » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:41 pm

What would be the point of knowing who did roids? What good would it do now? Oh, thats right it will satisfy the witch hunt, and do nothing for the future of baseball. Makes sense.

By the players panel not saying what they did might keep kids from doing roids,but by saying yes i did them and these were my results I would say that could turn youger athletes to unsafe use easier then just assuming they did.
It would then be a fact, thats how to get results. If anything this is bringing much more attention to it then if it was delt with behind closed doors.

I purposly didnt use kids there because the issue goes futher then that. Everyone seems to forget about the tweeners. The players who are not kids but they arent in the "show" yet, the single A teams and AA teams are full of people that will do anything to get to the show. This is the next generation of role models, that we have to deal with.

The past is just that water under the bridge.

O and the "Duke" was not a good guy by any means the IRS comes to mind. Pete Rose bet on his own team and would adjust the roster to facilitate his bet. Ruth was an alcholic and a womenizer, but these stories for some reason are not told, only because they are founding fathers. How bout TY Cobb there is another name that is held in high respect but was he an angel?

Every era of baseball has had their problems. The late 80's and 90's are no exception but there is no point in fingering people out, especially when nothing can be done to them lawfully.

What is unfortunate is no matter the situation if a person becomes ill due to roid use it will immediatly put on the rap sheet of MLB, and I would bet that not many 14 to 18 year olds are doing it becuase Mark Mcgwire did but because their peers pressure them into it. In 1998 the last time McGwire was investigated an 18 year senior would be 11. I dont know many 11 year olds that would be influenced by or even know what steroids are. I grew up in the middle of the era at question and I am and was a huge MLB fan and I never knew or thought about doing it.

O thats right cause my parents did their job, and would ask me what I was doing all the time.

If you did roids and got sick its your fault.

Does every fan of Glenn Gould abuse muscle relaxers and pain killers because they know it worked for him?

<small>[ 03-18-2005, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: ScottB ]</small>
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby rwcrooks » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:02 pm

ScottB,

The story is not told about Pete Rose gambling?
Or Babe Ruth's drinking and womanizing?

Whole books have been written about the Babe, and the last I checked, alcohol wasn't a performance-enhancing drug.
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:10 pm

Originally posted by DavidEB310:
Everyone -- Have a great weekend. The work week is finished. See ya Monday!
You have a good weekend to Dave!
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby piqaboo » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:34 pm

"Then everyone knows that by cheating, they could hurt everyone not just themselves"


You are kidding, right? Or terminally optimistic (Yo, Forrest!)? They CHEATED! Which by definition means they dont care about fair. Which by definition hurts other people, such as those folks who would hold the records if the cheater had played by the rules.

Why on earth do you think the cheaters give a rat's hindend if their actions hurt a couple more people than they have already hurt?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In 1984, Olympic athletes (you know, those folks who are among the best in the world at what they do) were surveyed with the following Q:
If you could take a pill that would kill you in one year, but would guarantee you won the Olympic Gold Medal, would you take it?
The results were resoundingly: Yes, I would.
People lose perspective when focussed very tightly on a difficult goal. MLB players are no different, and have additional incentive that few olympian gold medalists have: boatloads of money as a result of toplevel performance.

I think its not Congress's job to investigate drug use in MLB. Set laws, ensure they are followed. But MLB better decide what it is: a freak show or a sport. Because right now, the users are the top level guys, not all the guys. But if it keeps being "ok", then everyone will 'roid up, and the playing field will level, until the next drug and the next. Ooooooh! I had an idear! Lets encourage MLB to be a walking chemistry lab, and have Dr's do double blinded studies on the athletes - physiology, psychology etc. Kinda like the Nurse trial. We'd learn a lot that could be applied to regular medicine, and the 'boys of summer' could take all the weird stuff they wanted to. :( Its not fair, she wailed!
And sorry Nicole, the fatty tissue on men is called breasts. Breast is an anatomical not a physiological term, so the lack of mammary tissue is not relevant.

No one mentioned "roid rage" - can you imagine Ted Williams as a steroid user? :eek:

Does anyone know what they test for when they test for anabolic steroids? Do they check for normal testosterone levels, or does the "drug" stuff have different breakdown products than the natural? If a guy has low testosterone and takes just enough to stay within the top end of the normal range, is that cheating?

Is it illegal in the US to take steroid and HGH without a prescription or just illegal to sell them? If someone buys them from a scientific Tissue-culture supply catalog and shoots them up, is that against the law?

National Enquiring minds want to know!
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Steroids and Composers...Investigation?

Postby Nicole Marie » Fri Mar 18, 2005 5:49 pm

Piq, if MLB wants to make them illegal, they can. It's not about cheating. In the world of bodybuilding, most people do it. If it's going to be done then make it safe. If one industry wants to make them illegal then they can. If another industry does not, then keep it safe.

As for the leagl issue: http://www.steroidlaw.com/
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