Flying Fortress, aka the Vintage Airplane Thread

[OperaTenor]

I don't know if anyone else out there is into old planes, but we got the opportunity to see a B-17G up close and personal this past weekend. I've been interested in vintage aircraft, particularly WWII planes and rigid dirigibles since I was in junior high school, and the B-17 has always been my favorite bomber, warts and all.

This plane we saw does a kind of modern-day barnstorming, going from city to city, displaying the plane and offering rides on it. To view it and climb around in it was a paltry $10 per family, and to go on a 45-minute ride was $395. Considering it costs them ~$3,000 to make each flight, and they can only take 6-8 people per flight, they're not getting rich doing this. We didn't fly(not that kind of discretionary cash lying around), but getting to get up close and personal with the plane was a real thrill for me.

This particular plane never saw combat. It was used as a VIP transport in the Pacific theater toward the end of the war. One of the pilot/guide/helper guys stated General Doug flew in this plane, but I doubt that. His personal plane was Alexander the "Swoose", which is now at the Smithsonian, to the best of my knowledge.

Here are a couple of photos. Our timing was accidentally impeccable, as we got to watch it land. Here it has just finished taxiing, and they are running the engines down.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/b17g1.jpg" alt=" - " />

This is a closer view of the nose and the inboard engines. This model was the last prevalent in the B-17 lineup, with the distinctive "chin turret", giving it more forward fire power.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/b17g2.jpg" alt=" - " />

If there is any interest, I have more close ups and views of the interior I can post.

[GreatCarouser]

What no belly turret? I'd be interested in seeing more btw.

<small>[ 04-12-2005, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Great Carouser ]</small>

[OperaTenor]

Hi GC,

Tha ball turret's visible just inboard of the right wheel. I got a shot of it I'll post.

Are you kidding?!! I took photos of just about everything from just about every angle!

[Shapley]

GC,

I think you can see the belly turret in the top photo. It is obscured by the wheel and prop in the lower one.

OT, I toured a B17 at the Tennessee Air Museum in Sevierville, TN while on vacation a couple years ago. I don't believe it was the same one, but they were offering a similar deal on tours/rides (I couldn't afford the ride, either).

There is an excellent air museum at the USS Alabama Memorial Park near Mobile, if you ever get out that way. We were there in the '90s, and went back again when we vacationed at the "Redneck Riviera" (Gulf Shores) about three years ago. They've really added to it since our first visit. It's always nice to tour the 'Bama, too.

V/R
Shapley

[piqaboo]

Apparently "Fuddy Duddy" was a fighting plane, and someone said this plane has been painted to look like "Fuddy Duddy". I guess so they could paint the rows of bombs on the fuselage.

Most interesting touring the inside with a baby in a front-pack. She hung straight down during the first ~ 10 feet where I had to crawl on hands and knees. Getting thru the bomb bay was also interesting. Altoid didnt seem to mind the inconvenience at all, bless her! And she found much of the gadgetry fascinating.

[OperaTenor]

Yes, bless her.

It was a good thing it was a dummy bomb she dropped on the tarmac when she was playing with the bomb release controls!

:whew:

[GreatCarouser]

History Channel occasionally runs some interesting stuff on these bombers and belly turret gunners. I think I see it in the top photo, thanks for pointing it out, Shap. More pix would be great. Altoid obviously inherited dad and granddad's mechanical curiosity. Has she driven the Ugly Truckling yet?

[OperaTenor]

Here is a photo of the ball turret, aka the least favorite station on the crew:

BTW, that's Piq's dad mugging for the camera.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/bombbay.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/catwalk.jpg" alt=" - " />

Here is the cockpit. I found it amusing to see the hand held Garmin GPS stuck to the top of the panel in front of the left hand seat. I was told they used it while they were flying cross country from the Midwest.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/b17cockpit.jpg" alt=" - " />

Here are Piq and Altoid exiting the plane after we all crawled through it.

<img src="http://www.operatenor.100megs24.com/exitb17.jpg" alt=" - " />

[piqaboo]

Love that catwalk thru the bombbay. I still have grooves in my hips from passing between the V-shaped struts. Most folks went thru it sideways , but Altoid 'rendered that option inoperable'.' '

It was fascinating to see this plane after having read some about it in WWII histories. By today's standards, its so very small!

There is a long crawl to get to the tailgunner position, but that was blocked to tourists, because there was no way to turn us around at the other end. Woulda taken forever to have people crawl up and back, one at a time, with half the trip crawling backward. We also couldnt see the hatch to the belly turret from the inside as it was lined with a catwalk for the tourists.

Even so, we could see plenty to understand why some places were dangerous, uncomfortable etc.
One heck of a piece of machinery!

<small>[ 04-12-2005, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: piqaboo ]</small>

[Shapley]

Fortunately, I didn't have to carry my son around when we toured the B17, as he was old enough to walk. We parked my stepson on the tarmac in his wheelchair, and my wife and I took turns touring it.

When we toured the 'Bama the first time around, I carried my stepson on the tour. He weighed about 28 lbs then. My wife was having a fit as I carried him up and down the ships ladders, into the turret, and everywhere else you could get to. At that time, the 'Bama was the only ship that allowed you to tour inside the gun turrets. I'm not sure if that's changed. I toured the Massachusetts last year, and I think we were able to go inside one of the turrets. The last time we went, I took my son on the tour, while my wife and stepson stayed in the aircraft hangar and gift shop. She's not as interested in crawling around the old warhorses as I am.

Looking closer at the photos, I believe the B17 is the same one I toured a couple years ago in Tennessee. I'll have to look at my photos to be sure. I seem to recall the belly turret hatch was opened, and you could view it from the catwalk, but couldn't get inside, but I may be wrong.

They had a P-38 here in Cape Girardeau at the last air show. It's one of only two or three still flying, I understand. They didn't let us tour it, but I got some nice photos of it on the tarmac.

[OperaTenor]

I went with a friend to an air show at the Camarillo airport 3 years ago. He has a restored Navion, and was given preferential treatment when we landed, once he identified himself. We also got to taxi and park among the exhibits.

They had a lot of great planes on display, but B-17's, B-24's, and B-29's were conspicuously absent. Later in the day they flew some of the planes, most notably a B-25, three P-51's(at one point, the Mustangs and the Mitchell flew in formation), and my favorite fighter, an F4U Corsair. The Corsair was absolutely beautiful in flight.

The prize of the show, however, was the P-38 that was kept in a hanger, and could only be seen through the doors, which were only open a few feet.

After we saw the B-17 on Sunday, we did a whirlwind tour of the USS Midway. We were probably spoiled by the folks at the B-17, because it seemed to me the folks at the Midway were a bit gruff, and lacked the enthusiasm and passion I got from the folks at the B-17.

<small>[ 04-12-2005, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[piqaboo]

Altoid will not be allowed to tour the superstructure of the Midway, because she doesnt meet the minimum height requirement.

Just for a bit of wickedness, Im tempted to bribe her back into the front pack when she is tall enough, and see if they'll let me carry her thru.

She liked the shiny brass bits, enjoyed peering into the steam-jacketed stew pots, and loved the wind on the flight deck. She also liked vocalizing in the space for the anchor chain. A good solid reverb in there.

[Shapley]

Another point about the Alabama was that we could climb all the way to the bridge, which was pretty impressive (quite a way up there). we were only allowed a couple of decks above the main deck on the Massachusetts. That being said, Battleship Park, where the Massachusetts is permanently berthed, has more vessels to tour than does the Alabama Memorial.

V/R
Shapley

[piqaboo]

Both sound fun.

[analog]

Is anyone going to Oshkosh for the Experimental Aircraft Association's annual big show?



http://www.airventure.org
http://www.airventure.org/2006/news/060 ... rshow.html

"Additionally, this year features a one-of-a-kind reunion of the Allied Forces' big bombers - including B-17, B-24, B-25, and British Lancaster aircraft - all performing fly-overs and fly-bys with stunning pyrotechnics. And some of today’s most awe-inspiring military aircraft - including the B-1B, C-17, F-16, FA-18, and A-10 - will also roar overhead."

[OperaTenor]

I would LOVE to see that.

[barfle]

A couple of years ago the Smithsonian opened up a huge aircraft museum at Dulles airport just outside of DC. There are airplanes from the days of development (including some whose claim to "flight" is tenuous at best) all the way up to the shuttle Enterprise. As far as warplanes are concerned, the Enola Gay is there, very nicely restored, as well as an SR71 and several fighter planes.

Admission is free, but parking is $17, as I recall from earlier this year when I took my dad there.

[analog]

Well, it was my first time at Oshkosh for the EAA fly-in.



It is a mind boggler to walk around so much flying machinery.



If our photos come out (I still use film and York Photo), I will post some. EAA has some pictures at http://www.airventure.org/2006/gallery .

Whew - I'm still coming down from the high!

[BenODen]

They let you walk UNDER a B1B!? WOWee, very nice. Very fun stuff! I was online, chatting with a friend about the Eclipse jet just last night. Did it land there so you could look it over and see just how smalll it was? It certainly does seem like a bargan at $395 an hour, though that was projected numbers, so the fuel costs probably have gone through the roof since then...

That looks so fun, I wanna go sometime I'm thinking.

On sunday, I saw a 757 at Dullas with an ANCIENT american Airline insignia on it, I'll have a picture up soon. I would have to say 60s era. All black and white logo. I was only there for an hour, but if I'd known about that museum (I do now!) And had gotten bumpped to a later flight like I'd planned (I didn't, other poor delayed connecting sods lost out) that'd be the perfect way to burn time! (Waiting around in the airport with two possible schedules for some of the day when you're just returning home is SOOOO different an animal than sitting still, waiting to hear something "in 10 minutes" for hours, then taking a 6 hour limo-bus ride instead of the plane like I did on my way out this trip. I've little story in photos with a few cool storm photos, some placeholders, if anyone's interested.) Back at DIA on Sunday I saw an exhibit of 50-100 multi cylinder model airplane engines.. Tres cool. Still have to see if any of the pictures I took are any good.. low light and lots of glare.

[analog]

:.... Eclipse jet just last night. Did it land there so you could look it over and see just how smalll it was?

That looks so fun, I wanna go sometime I'm thinking.

Most airplanes were quite accessible.
Ford trimotor rides were $50 a head.
There were lots of personal jets on display. Honda demonstrated one that's quiet as a vacuum cleaner.

I'm more of a Volksplane type but it is tremendous fun to look at megabuck toys.

If you enjoy aircraft museums while waiting for a plane, two I can recommend are the ones in Hartford Connecticut (a small building across the field from the terminal), and Ottawa Canada (a huge one worth a whole day). Canada sent one of their Lancasters to Oshkosh this time.

I'm still wrestling with myself - there was this big radial engine there for $2500, made me think of Robert Duval in Secondhand Lions.... What a project....

You'd probably love it, Art****...