Flying Fortress, aka the Vintage Airplane Thread

[OperaTenor]

I'd love it, too. :drool:

Perhaps next year...

[BigJon@Work]

I need an Eclipse 500! :drool:

[BenODen]

Ah yes, the Honda, we chatted about that last night too. They love to make things quiet. Honda generators can be quieter than a vacuum. Any updates on whether it'll make it into production or not?

More museums to see!! ohdear!

-BenODen

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

:.... There were lots of personal jets on display. Honda demonstrated one that's quiet as a vacuum cleaner.

And here we've been calling S-3's "Hoover"s forever, because they make loud vacuum cleaner howling noises.

Maybe your Honda is more along the lines of my Dyson.

Get the big radial engine; I shall pack my brass screwdriver and my crescent wrench and my lockwire pliers and my breaker bar. I'm also qualified to manufacture engine hydraulic lines. Even the preformed Teflon ones, if you have the forms and filler rod. You might find me useful?

If it ends up being a lot of fun, I'll shanghai BigBill and bring him along. He's got an engine ticket...

[barfle]

One of the planes on exhibit at the Udvar-Hazy center (Dulles) is a Bede BD5. That reminds me more of an Indy car than much of anything else. It's a single seat, with the cockpit barely big enough for the pilot.

It was one of the planes my dad really liked, because at one time he was considering building one. That didn't happen, but he certainly was knowledgeable about the plane. Bede Aircraft built a jet powered prototype, the BD5-J, that had a longer wingspan so it looked for all the world like a U2 on a diet. I don't believe the cockpit was pressurized, so the ceiling was pretty low, but it sure looked like fun.

[analog]

One of the planes on exhibit at the Udvar-Hazy center (Dulles) is a Bede BD5. That reminds me more of an Indy car than much of anything else. It's a single seat, with the cockpit barely big enough for the pilot.

It was one of the planes my dad really liked, because at one time he was considering building one. That didn't happen, but he certainly was knowledgeable about the plane. Bede Aircraft built a jet powered prototype, the BD5-J, that had a longer wingspan so it looked for all the world like a U2 on a diet. I don't believe the cockpit was pressurized, so the ceiling was pretty low, but it sure looked like fun.

As I recall, Jim Bede ran into a snag with supply of those little jet engines.


I was lucky enough to live in Homestead in 1976 when they had the warbird pylon races there. Part of that show was two of those prototype BD5-J jets; they did some aerobatics but only carried about fifteen minutes of fuel. They appeared to fly just fine, but definitely not a cross country machine. Bob Hoover did his Shrike show, Pappy Boyington was there autographing books, Confederate Air Force brought both their B17 and B29. We were free to roam around the airplanes after the race. It is among the most memorable days of my life....somewhere I have two rolls of slides.... A fellow from Idaho won the race in a P51 with counter-rotating props - only one I ever saw. He got a huge silver cup, and a lot of champagne flowed afterward. It must be a small world - a couple years ago, Fair Anne (Mrs Analog) and I stopped in a hamburger joint in Alpine Wyoming for lunch. The place was named "Red Baron". I expected a Snoopy motif. I remarked "Funny, that's the name of that P51 i saw twenty five years ago...." Well the place is decorated in P51 memorabilia, including a huge silver cup engraved "Homestead Air Races 1976". I told the waitress I'd seen him win that big silver cup - she was unimpressed, and only said : "I wasn't born yet."[old icon]

Selma -- I may very well be after you for some advice. It's a Continental R975, my research says it's basically a Wright Whirlwind about 400 horsepower that was used in airplanes, tanks, and motorized guns... I've found an Army overhaul manual for it and just might call the guy .... Thank you for the encouragaement.

a.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

:rubbing hands icon: Cool!

[barfle]

As I recall, Jim Bede ran into a snag with supply of those little jet engines.

As I recall, he ran into all sorts of engine supply problems, which prevented him from selling enough kits to make any money. But they sure are cute.

[analog]

But they sure are cute.

Amen to that!!!



There's a few still flying.....

barnstormers dot com lists a couple in various states of completion - as if any of us needed more projects!!!

[piqaboo]

Analog,
my dad's an airplane nut and aeronautical engineer, so if you do dive in,
I'll ask him if he's interested in answering any questions Selma passes on.

[BigJon@Work]

How the heck do you get counter-rotating props on a single engine plane?

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

How the heck do you get counter-rotating props on a single engine plane?

Concentric drive shafts. Fancy gear train.

[Shapley]

The Russians have had them for years.

[BigJon@Work]

Wouldn't the second prop just thrash the air uselessly in the wake of the first? The air has already been accelerated and deflected and the second prop comes along and tried to deflect it the opposite way and create thrust with it?

It seems so . . . counter-productive

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Wouldn't the second prop just thrash the air uselessly in the wake of the first? The air has already been accelerated and deflected and the second prop comes along and tried to deflect it the opposite way and create thrust with it?

It seems so . . . counter-productive

Maybe they're like the bumblebee: aerodynamically impossible, and make no sense whatsoever. Nevertheless, they fly.

[Shapley]

I believe the purpose of the second prop it to counteract the torque, not to enhance the thrust.

V/R
Shapley

[BigJon@Work]

http://www.esotec.co.nz/hb/HTML/HomePage2_F.html
A fascinating application of counter-rotating props. Now for this, I see the benefits, as the duct would force reward thrust from both props. I understand the benefits of torque reduction, but Howard Hughes chose counter-rotating props for his twin-engine experimental plane when he could have just had counter-rotating engines to eliminate the torque effects. So he must have thought here was a performance improvement. Supposedly it was the failure of the counter-rotating gearbox that caused the crash made famous in the movie.

[Shapley]

The P-38 Lightning had counter-rotating engines. Pilots considered the counter-clockwise engine to be 'backwards' and regarding it with an almost superstitious disrespect. Supposedly this is because they have been taught ever since starting flight school about how to trim the aircraft in order to counter the torque, and they dislike having to unlearn or reverse their knowledge and experience.

[analog]

I believe the purpose of the second prop it to counteract the torque, not to enhance the thrust.

V/R
Shapley

I suppose there'd be a reduction in the gyroscope effect, too. The pylon race was only about 100 feet above the ground. They go 'round and round a short course, so i'd think anything to enhance maneuverability helps a lot.

Here's a photo of that Red Baron plane, (not my picture it's from the net).
.

That little Red Baron restaurant in Alpine served a great lunch, by the way.. i recommend it if you're ever lost in southwest Wyoming between Soda Springs and Jackson.

Thanks Ms Boo for the offer of help -- I'm getting up my nerve....

[BenODen]

I would think that watching the counterrotating props on a plane would be disconcerting.. The little bits of motion you catch during blinks and out the corner of your eye would go both directions. But it does seems like a good idea except for the increased complexity.