'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

If you would like to post a topic on the Beethoven Bulletin Board but you cannot find an appropriate location... post it here!

Moderator: Nicole Marie

'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby lliam » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:40 am

I'd love to hear your views on the following subject.
----------------------
On Sat 23 April We mark St George's Day focusing on England's patron saint and notions of piety and chivalry in the medieval period.
Saint George is the patron saint of England. He’s popularly identified with England and English ideals of honour, bravery and gallantry.
23rd April was named as St George's day in 1222.


For years the Irish (St Patrick) the Scottish (St Andrew) and the Welsh (St David). 'BUT' when we English try and celebrate the different councils and Councilers across the boroughs try and stop it because it might upset the, ethnic minoraty. This year though it seems as though we are all going to have a great time, or are we?
------------------------------------------------

A shopkeeper has been ordered to remove his flags celebrating St George by council officials who say they breach health and safety rules.
Phil Moffat has been told the 20 flags hoisted from lampposts near his shop in Tuebrook, Liverpool, are dangerous.

Mr Moffat, whose shop is named Churchill's, says he will defy the ban.

"It has really come to something when a proud Englishman can't raise a few flags to celebrate St George's Day, After all, Irish tricolours were flying from lamp posts along Scotland Road and Vauxhall Road during St Patrick's Day."
Phil Moffat



Meanwhile, a Norwich publican has vowed to keep campaigning to make St George's Day, 23 April, a bank holiday despite losing his bid for an extended licence.
-------------------


Tony Bennett, 48, has spoken of his frustration after he failed to persuade magistrates to extend his licence for a St George's Day event at the Otter pub in Drayton, near Norwich.

On Friday Mr Bennett will join fellow campaigners in presenting a petition to Downing Street asking for the day to be made a national holiday.
------------------

Managing director Gary Lasham said English people spent money on St Patrick's Day but appeared "frustrated" at the lack of occasion around St George's Day.

But he said: "The biggest losers are those in the hospitality industry who lose a fortune every year as the English fail to mark 23 April.

"Those that would like to see St George's Day celebrated as a national occasion should organise their own party."

======================================


He is patron saint not only of England but also of Aragon, Catalonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Germany and Greece; and of Moscow, Istanbul, Genoa and Venice (second to St Mark). He’s also patron saint of soldiers, archers, cavalry and chivalry, farmers and field workers, riders and saddlers, and he helps those suffering from leprosy, plague and syphilis.

Phew! he must have been qite a guy.

'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Darlaston - West - Midlands - U.K.

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby DavidEB310 » Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:50 am

lliam,

Thanks for the great information! Having family roots that date back to England (circa early 1800's), it makes it all the more interesting.

Unfortunately, I don't know much more than that for my English ancestry on my dad's side due to the death of a family member in the U.S. Civil War.

On my mom's side, we're traced back to France mid-1600's (French Huguenots)when the family left the other side of the pond and arrived in the Upstate New York Lower Hudson Valley region.
DavidEB310
4th Chair
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:01 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby treebeau » Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:19 am

Here in the US we have had our share of "don't upset the minorities." I didn't think that any other country would come close to our views on PC (Political Correctness).

We seem to take it to an extreme level by allowing the minorities to celebrate themselves, however. While I don't consider myself to be a racist (I hate everyone equally :) jk) the easiest to see, by far, are black/white issues. Just about every college has a "black studies" group. If someone wanted to have a "white studies" group, that would be a no-no. Some comedian quipped that it's ok to make a film called "White Men Can't Jump" but imagine the outroar if you tried to make a film called "Black Men Can't Swim".

I think that some people are just too sensitive these days. If and when you come across people like this, please tell them "Lighten up, Francis!" :)

Regards,
Tim B.
treebeau
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 12:01 am
Location: Winston-Salem, NC, USA

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby DavidEB310 » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:04 am

Tim,

Here's one:

How about the days gone by when School Systems actually had Christmas Parties with a Santa?

It's ironic that the same school administrators and parents who enjoyed the parties as kids are now the ones policing the school systems to rid the classroom of something that isn't celebrated by everyone. Yet, for example, in RI, schools are closed for Jewish Holidays and Martin Luther King Day. However, don't mention Christmas and Easter in any sentence... I'm mixing issues on both race and religion, and it's not bigoted talk -- only an observation that there are double standards in groups all over the U.S. as you so aptly pointed out.
DavidEB310
4th Chair
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2002 12:01 am
Location: Rhode Island

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby piqaboo » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:17 pm

We in the US do seem to be at the extreme end of the pendulum swing. Here's hoping the pendulum centers itself a bit soon, so we can all celebrate without censure.

I'm fascinated that England has the same problem. Scots are ?minorities???! Wow. Not in Scotland they arent! And so forth for the Irish and presumably the Welsh.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby lliam » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:25 pm

quote:
Thanks for the great information! Having family roots that date back to England (circa early 1800's), it makes it all the more interesting.

Yes David, there must be a large population of Americans whose roots start from the UK.
----------------------------------------
quote:
Here in the US we have had our share of "don't upset the minorities." I didn't think that any other country would come close to our views on PC (Political Correctness).
---------------------------------------
Yes Tim, with us it's also the 'Do Gooders' they try and think for the ethnic minorities.
-------------------------------
Scots are ?minorities???! Wow. Not in Scotland they arent! And so forth for the Irish and presumably the Welsh.
--------------------------
No Piq, I was refering to the, 'Ethnic Minorities'. ;)
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Darlaston - West - Midlands - U.K.

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby Angie Parkes » Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:39 pm

Originally posted by treebeau:
Just about every college has a "black studies" group. If someone wanted to have a "white studies" group, that would be a no-no.
TB, there are "white studies" on most campuses but they're called "Western Civilization". Where I went to school WC was divided into different departments: history, political science, economics, English, psychology, sociology, math, physical sciences, life sciences, fine arts, and music, all pretty much white and pretty much male.

If someone wants to set up an entire program examining Asian lesbian vegetarians' influences on Aristophanes, be my guest. It can even have its own acronym and people can major in ALVIA studies. It's unlikely to have any effect at all outside the academy, but who knows, maybe there is something that will come from that perspective of culture. It probably won't hurt.

As for St. George, when I was a kid, even in Canada you could buy red paper roses for April 23 (much the same way you buy poppies for Rememberance Day), or at least you could where I lived.

Lliam, last time I looked, there were St. Andrew's, St. Patricks's, and St. George's crosses on the Union Jack. I say bring out the flags and red paper roses, put red food colour in the lager and call it Dragon's Blood! It's no sillier than the Sudanese, Lebanese, and Afghani kids in my neighbourhood wearing green to school on St. Patrick's Day.
Cheers,
Angie
Angie Parkes
3rd Chair
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Calgary

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:21 am

Lliam,
I heard there are laws in some areas of England that prohibits you from flying the British Flag as it would offend minorities.

On the other hand, they can fly theirs without any question.

Is this true?

Thanks,
TM
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby lliam » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:37 am

Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:
Lliam,
I heard there are laws in some areas of England that prohibits you from flying the British Flag as it would offend minorities.

On the other hand, they can fly theirs without any question.

Is this true?

Thanks,
TM
Yes TM, as I said before it's not the 'Ethnic Minorities' it's the 'Do Gooders' who try and think for the ethnic minorities.

An update from yesterday. The shopkeeper who had been ordered to remove his flags celebrating St George, by council officials who say they breach health and safety rules.
Phil Moffat has been told the 20 flags hoisted from lamp posts near his shop in Tuebrook, Liverpool, are dangerous.

Mr Moffat, whose shop is named Churchill's, says he will defy the ban.

This ban has been dropped by the Liverpool Council. After one of our National newspapers (The Daily Star) backed Mr Moffet's battle to fly the flag for St George's Day on Sturday. Civic leaders admitted defeat. :cool:
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Darlaston - West - Midlands - U.K.

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:43 am

Lliam,
Does these laws by the so called "do-gooders" apply to residential areas? I can't imagine anyone telling me I could not raise the flag of my own country on my own property.
TM
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby treebeau » Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:26 am

TM,

Check out "Celebration, FL" some time! :) Though I don't know about flag raising, it is an anally restrictive community.

Regards,
Tim B.

Edited to correct the name of the town.

<small>[ 04-22-2005, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: treebeau ]</small>
treebeau
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 2133
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2000 12:01 am
Location: Winston-Salem, NC, USA

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:38 am

Originally posted by treebeau:
TM,

Check out "Celebration, FL" some time! :) Though I don't know about flag raising, it is an anally restrictive community.

Regards,
Tim B.

Edited to correct the name of the town.
Tim,
OK :)
TM
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby RC » Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:58 am

There are many deed restricted communities in Florida which include restrictions on flags (even the US flag), lawn ornaments, type of mailbox, yard lights, type of vehicles parked in your driveway (no trucks, no boats, no ATV's etc...), color of paint, and on and on and on. However, you don't have to live in such a community. I don't know about Celebration.
I live across the street from the crackhead with giant plastic sunflowers in her front yard. No one really cares that my mail box is affixed to the post with electrical tape because it gets run down so frequently. :D
A man is the sum of his actions, of what he has done, of what he can do, Nothing else.
Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
RC
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Florida

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:20 am

Florida's not alone. Guy in my office had to get his replacement garage door approved by the architectural committee. And the paperwork to put up a new fence!

Relaxed neighbors with duck-taped mailboxes and giant plastic daisies might be a lot better.
>^..^<
Selma in Sandy Eggo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 6273
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:01 am
Location: San Diego

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby piqaboo » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:39 am

How do they justify that flying the British flag would be offensive to minority ethnics who chose to live in England??
Very weird.

Some "lets make it look nice" rules are so poorly thought thru. I'm all for duct-tape, crooked fences, barbecues in the front yard, basketball hoops on the garage eves, etc.

SD is talking about creating a law to make it illegal to park RVs,vans, certain trucks, storage units, etc on the street for more than 4 hours, and never between 2-6am "so that people wont sleep in them overnight".

Lets see - Im driving cross-country in my RV for a vacation and stopped to see old friends. We drank a bit to much and I cant really see straight to drive to an RV park, so by spending the night in my RV I'm hurting whom?

Our across-the-street neighbor is a sandrat with a 5 yearold kid. It takes the neighbor more than 4 hours to clean and refurb his RV after every desert trip. The kid gets a kick out of camping out in it, so some nights they sleep in it. So?
The guy shouldnt be allowed to maintain it?

This, BTW, is in a neighborhood with overhead power lines, two check-cashing businesses within 1/4 mile, and a 99c store in the same radius. A real "classy" place with a clear image to maintain. :roll:

But we are part of the city of SD so if they pass that stupid rule, we are all screwed.
Altoid - curiously strong.
piqaboo
1st Chair
 
Posts: 7135
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:01 am
Location: Paradise (So. Cal.)

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby lliam » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:38 pm

Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:
Lliam,
Does these laws by the so called "do-gooders" apply to residential areas? I can't imagine anyone telling me I could not raise the flag of my own country on my own property.
TM
No TM, it's mostley public buildings, schools, town centres, library's etc. My flag is already flying for tomorrow. I think this will snowball and every year it will get stronger.
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Darlaston - West - Midlands - U.K.

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:22 pm

Originally posted by lliam:
Originally posted by TrumpetMaster:
[b] Lliam,
Does these laws by the so called "do-gooders" apply to residential areas? I can't imagine anyone telling me I could not raise the flag of my own country on my own property.
TM
No TM, it's mostley public buildings, schools, town centres, library's etc. My flag is already flying for tomorrow. I think this will snowball and every year it will get stronger. [/b]
I still think it is outrageous that public places, etc.... can't display the flag.
Ability is what you're capable of doing. Motivation determines what you do. Attitude determines how well you do it.
Trumpetmaster
Patron
 
Posts: 11557
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 12:01 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby dai bread » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:36 am

Originally posted by lliam:
.....My flag is already flying for tomorrow. I think this will snowball and every year it will get stronger. [/QUOTE]

Good, lliam. I hope your flag is a big one.
We have no money; we must use our brains. -Ernest Rutherford.
dai bread
1st Chair
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand

Re: 'Seynt George, on Whom Alle Englond Hath Byleve'

Postby lliam » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:01 am

Originally posted by dai bread:
Originally posted by lliam:
[b]
.....My flag is already flying for tomorrow. I think this will snowball and every year it will get stronger.
Good, lliam. I hope your flag is a big one. [/b][/QUOTE]

6'x 4' DB, at the moment I'm saving up, so next year I'll have a flagpole erected on the front of my house, and a huge flag. A book of dates of when flags should be flown, comes with the flagpole. The Union Flag (Union Jack) can be raised as well as St Georges flag on different times of the year.

I will probably raise both flags in the sunrise and lower them at sunset most days of the year.
;)
Lliam.

I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
lliam
2nd Chair
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Darlaston - West - Midlands - U.K.


Return to Culture Connections

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron