Muslim Maniacs.

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Muslim Maniacs.

Postby lliam » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:22 am

On May 5th we have the General Election in the UK.

Well what d'ya know. Islamic extremists want Muslims to boycott the General Election... and help turn Britain into an Islamic state.

A group of religious militants has already stormed political rallies and issued death threats to politicians standing for Parliament on May 5. :mad:

More news on:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2-1058504_1%2C00.html

<small>[ 04-22-2005, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: lliam ]</small>
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby piqaboo » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:21 am

I understand Norway and Denmark are having similar problems. :D
Altoid - curiously strong.
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby Trumpetmaster » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:24 am

Originally posted by lliam:
On May 5th we have the General Election in the UK.

Well what d'ya know. Islamic extremists want Muslims to boycott the General Election... and help turn Britain into an Islamic state.

A group of religious militants has already stormed political rallies and issued death threats to politicians standing for Parliament on May 5. :mad:

More news on:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2-1058504_1%2C00.html
Sounds like they want to build that "Master Race" to me.
Very dangerous...
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby lliam » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:03 pm

Why is the Western World treated with such contempt? Every Englishman and Woman I know couldn't give a s**t about Islam. All we want to do is live our lives in peace and be left alone. 'BUT' oh no we have to be alert against terrorism and foreigners who want to take us over. If that's not enough they have to scrounge and fiddle the 'State Benefits' system out of millions of pounds.
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby Angie Parkes » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Lliam, my guess is that the vast majority of British Muslims are like the vast majority of my Muslim neighbours: utterly normal, completely unexceptional, people who also want to live in peace. I doubt if most of them cheat the system any more than any other group of people. Some will be completely unscrupulous and rob their neighbours blind if given the chance, a few will never touch a penny of state funds, and most will be happy to take full, lawful advantage of whatever benefits the state offers.

I agree with you completely that the Islamic fringe is treacherous and vile, but I don't think that's because they're Muslims (although that's their rallying banner right now). I think it's because they're fundamentalists, and fundamentalists, especially those who claim to have an exclusive option on a joyous hereafter, are deathly dangerous.

I'm Jewish; my mother escaped Hitler's Germany and I believe in the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. But the Jewish Irgun who blew up the King David hotel were fundamentalist terrorists, pure and simple. (I can't keep track of, let alone unravel, the various acts of terrorism and reprisal that are occuring now in Israel, and it's not a debate I will engage in.) Our American friends' history has been marred by the racist fundamentalism of the KKK who also tried to stop people from exercising their democratic rights. I hardly need remind you of some bloody-minded and bloody-handed Irish fundamentalists of both faiths in conflict.

It's awful that such people have the power to jeopardize the real cradle of representative government, but fundamentalists have no respect for life, only their tiny, narrow version of it. The current fundamentalist threat in the UK is Muslim, but they could be Rotarians. It's the fact of their lunatic convictions that makes them dangerous.

I don't know how much of British politics makes its way over to the US, but we see quite a lot of it here, obviously. I'll keep a special lookout for it, and for what it's worth, will hope and pray that terror cannot prevail.
Cheers,
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby lliam » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:26 pm

I couldn't have put it better myself Angie.
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby bignaf » Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:02 pm

the vast majority of my muslim ex-neighbours don't want to live in peace. statistically documented.
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby dai bread » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:27 am

I thought Angie put it very well.

Big, could you elaborate?
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby shostakovich » Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:15 pm

From Angie: "I agree with you completely that the Islamic fringe is treacherous and vile, but I don't think that's because they're Muslims (although that's their rallying banner right now). I think it's because they're fundamentalists, and fundamentalists, especially those who claim to have an exclusive option on a joyous hereafter, are deathly dangerous."

I couldn't agree more. It's the fanatical fringe of any group that condones violence when others don't behave "the way they should". Unfortunately, the muslim fringe may well be able to bring retribution onto Muslims in general because weak-minded citizens can be fear-driven to strike out blindly at Muslims. Many in the US feel that GWB was justified in lashing out against Iraq because some Saudis (other Muslims) caused 9/11. His actual reasons had nothing to do with Islam, WMD, or democracy, none of which he understands. I'm including WMD in the lack of understanding because he can't say "nuclear". The other two he just plain doesn't get.

And, yes, Big, do elaborate. I wonder if your Muslim ex-neighbors have been fear-driven to lash out. What are the actual statistics?
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Re: Muslim Maniacs.

Postby lliam » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:17 am

Terror on the dole

By David Cohen, Evening Standard

20 April 2004

Four young British Muslims in their twenties - a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser - occupy a table at a fast-food chicken restaurant in Luton. Perched on their plastic chairs, wolfing down their dinner, they seem just ordinary young men. Yet out of their mouths pour heated words of revolution.

"As far as I'm concerned, when they bomb London, the bigger the better," says Abdul Haq, the social worker. "I know it's going to happen because Sheikh bin Laden said so. Like Bali, like Turkey, like Madrid - I pray for it, I look forward to the day."

"Pass the brown sauce, brother," says Abu Malaahim, the IT specialist, devouring his chicken and chips.

"I agree with you, brother," says Abu Yusuf, the earnest-looking financial adviser sitting opposite. "I would like to see the Mujahideen coming into London and killing thousands, whether with nuclear weapons or germ warfare. And if they need a safehouse, they can stay in mine - and if they need some fertiliser [for a bomb], I'll tell them where to get it."

His friend, Abu Musa, the security guard, smiles radiantly. "It will be a day of joy for me," he adds, speaking with a slight lisp.

As they talk, a man with a bushy beard, dressed in a jacket emblazoned with the word "Jihad", stands and watches over them, handing around cups of steaming hot coffee. His real name is Ishtiaq Alamgir, but he goes by his adopted name, Sayful Islam, meaning "Sword of Islam". He is the 24-year-old leader of the Luton branch of al-Muhajiroun, an extremist Muslim group with about 800 members countrywide, who regard Osama bin Laden as their hero.

Until recently, nobody took the fanatical beliefs of al-Muhajiroun too seriously, believing that a British-based group so brazenly "out there" could not be involved in something as "underground" as terrorism. The group is led by the exiled Saudi, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad, from his base in north London. Yesterday, in a magazine article, Bakri warned that several radical groups are poised to strike in London.

For all its inflammatory rhetoric, al-Muhajiroun has never been linked to actual violence. Yet, with the discovery last month of half-a-tonne of ammonium nitrate fertiliser - the same explosive ingredient used in the Bali and Turkey terror attacks - and with the arrest of eight young British Muslims in London and the South-East, including six in Luton, extremist groups such as al-Muhajiroun are under the spotlight like never before.

Detectives fear that the "enemy within", the homegrown extremists leading apparently normal lives in suburbia, now pose the greatest threat to security in Britain. Sayful and his friends fit this "homegrown" profile: three were born here, two came as young children from Pakistan; all were educated in local Luton schools; and they grew up in families of full employment - one of their fathers is a retired local businessman, two are engineers, and two worked in the local Vauxhall car plant.

The question is: how worried should we be? Is al-Muhajiroun nothing more than a repository for disaffected Muslim youths who have adopted an extreme interpretation of Islam - perhaps to cock a snook at the white establishment - but who are essentially posturing? Or does the group also perform a more sinister function, sucking in alienated young men and brainwashing the more impressionable into becoming future suicide bombers?

Although none of the arrested Muslims - aged 17 to 32 - appear to be current al-Muhajiroun members, rumours have circulated of informal links to the group. Moreover, parents of the arrested men have spoken anxiously of the "radicalising influence" of al-Muhajiroun militants who " corrupt" their children at mosques.

Nowhere has this public confrontation between radicals and moderates been more apparent than in Luton, which has the highest density of Muslims in the South-East - 28,000 out of a total population of 140,000 - and has long been regarded as a hotbed of extremism.

Sayful Islam, for one, is particularly proud of his contribution to Luton's hardline reputation. His exploits include covering the town with " Magnificent 19" posters glorifying the 11 September suicide bombers. "When I joined al-Muhajiroun four years ago, there were five local members," he says. "Now there are more than 50 and hundreds more support us."

The strange thing is that four years ago, Sayful Islam was a jeans-clad student completing his degree in business economics at Middlesex University in Hendon, north London.

The son of a British Rail engineer who came to this country from Pakistan, Sayful grew up in a moderate, middle-class Muslim family in Luton. At the local Denbigh High School, he is remembered as one of the smartest kids, and was selected to attend a science masterclass at Cambridge University. He would go on to marry, have two children and find work as an accountant for the Inland Revenue in Luton. He was thoroughly uninterested in politics.

THEN he met Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad at a local event. Within two years, he had swapped his decently paid job as an accountant for an unpaid one as a political agitator. What turned him into an extremist? And how far is he prepared to go to achieve his aims?

Prior to seeing the group at the fastfood restaurant, Sayful meets me at his semi-detached rented home in Bury Park, Luton's Muslim neighbourhood. He no longer works, even though he is able-bodied, he admits, preferring instead to claim housing benefit and jobseeker's allowance. He smiles sheepishly and says the irony is not lost on him that the British state is supporting him financially, even as he plots to "overthrow it".

"I made a decision that I wanted to follow what Islam really said," Sayful begins, sitting on his sofa in his thowb (a traditional robe) and bare feet. "I went to listen to all the local imams, but I found their portrayal of Islam was too secularised. When I heard Sheikh Omar [the leader] of al-Muhajiroun speak, it was pure Islam, with no compromise. I found that appealing.

"At the same time," continues Sayful, "wars were happening in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Afghanistan. People were being oppressed simply because they were Muslim. Although I had never experienced racism in the UK, it opened the eyes of a lot of Muslims, including mine."

But it was the events of 11 September that crystallised Sayful's worldview. "When I watched those planes go into the Twin Towers, I felt elated," he says. "That magnificent action split the world into two camps: you were either with Islam and al Qaeda, or with the enemy. I decided to quit my job and commit myself full-time to al-Muhajiroun." Now he does not consider himself British. "I am a Muslim living in Britain, and I give my allegiance only to Allah."

According to Sayful, the aim of al-Muhajiroun ("the immigrants") is nothing less than Khilafah - "the worldwide domination of Islam". The way to achieve this, he says, is by Jihad, led by Bin Laden. "I support him 100 per cent."

Does that support extend to violent acts of terrorism in the UK?

"Yes," he replies, unequivocally. "When a bomb attack happens here, I won't be against it, even if it kills my own children. Islam is clear: Muslims living in lands that are occupied have the right to attack their invaders.

"Britain became a legitimate target when it sent troops to Iraq. But it is against Islam for me to engage personally in acts of terrorism in the UK because I live here. According to Islam, I have a covenant of security with the UK, as long as they allow us Muslims to live here in peace."

HE USES the phrase "covenant of security" constantly. He attempts to explain. "If we want to engage in terrorism, we would have to leave the country," he says. "It is against Islam to do otherwise." Such a course of action, he says, he is not prepared to undertake. This is why, Sayful claims, it is consistent, and not cowardly, for him to espouse the rhetoric of terrorism, the "martyrdom-operations", while simultaneouslylimiting himself to nonviolentactions such as leafletting outside Luton town hall.

He denies any link between al-Muhajiroun and the Muslims arrested in the recent police raids. But, as I later discover at the fastfood restaurant, not everyone attaching themselves, however loosely, to al-Muhajiroun draws the same line. Two members of the group - Abu Yusuf, the financial adviser, and Abu Musa, the security guard - scorn al-Muhajiroun as "too moderate".

"I am freelance," says Abu Yusuf, fixing me with his piercing brown eyes. What does that mean? I ask.

"The difference between us and those two," interjects Abu Malaahim, pointing to Musa and Yusuf, "is that us lot do a verbal thing, [but] those brothers actually want to do a physical thing."

Referring to the latest truce offered by Bin Laden, and Britain's scathing rejection of it, Abu Malaahim adds: "He tried to make a peace deal. When terrorism happens, you will only have yourselves to blame."

How far are you prepared to go? I ask.

"You want to know how far I will go," says Abu Musa, his high-pitched lisp rising an octave. "When Allah said in the Koran 'kill and be killed', that's what I want. I want a martyr operation, where I kill my enemy."

Are you saying, I probe, that you are looking to kill people yourself ? "Yes," Abu Musa says, "to kill and to be killed." He emphasises each word.

What's stopped you doing it? "As you know from watching the news," intones Abu Yusuf, "there are brothers who do leave the country and do it." He is referring to the four Muslims from Luton who died fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the two British Muslims, said to have had ties to al-Muhajiroun, who last April left to become suicide bombers in Israel. "In-shallah [ Godwilling], there will be a time to go."

It is hard to know whether Musa and Yusuf are deadly serious or just pumped full of misguided, youthful bravado. Though I see coldness - even ruthlessness - in their eyes, I sense no malice. Both young men agree, perhaps foolishly, to be quoted using their real names, though they decline photographs - thus illustrating their uncertainty of which way to jump.

Muhammad Sulaiman, president of the Islamic Cultural Society, the largest of the 14 mosques in Luton, dismisses al-Muhajiroun as "verbal diarrhoea".

"They are an extreme Right-wing group - the Muslim version of the BNP," he says disdainfully. "They think Muslims should dominate, just like the BNP thinks whites should dominate. They use Islam as a vehicle to promote their distorted beliefs, particularly to unemployed young bloods who are vulnerable."

ALTHOUGH unemployment in Luton is just six per cent, the rate among Muslim youths is estimated at 25 per cent. "They are no more representative of our Muslim community than the BNP are of the white community."

Sulaiman insists that Sayful Islam and his crew are not welcome at the mosque. He cannot prevent them praying there, but he will never give them a platform. "I've told Sayful to bugger off and ejected him many times," he says brusquely. "Even Sayful's father, who I know well, thinks his son has been brainwashed."

But Sayful and his friends laugh at the idea that they are local pariahs. "The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

They also mock the idea that they are attracted to al-Muhajiroun because they have suffered alienation from white society. "Do we look like scum?" they ask. "Do we look illiterate?"

As they call for the bill, Abu Malaahim flicks open his 3G mobile phone and, with a satisfied grin, displays the image, downloaded from the internet, of an American Humvee burning in Iraq.

Abu Yusuf says: "That's nothing. I downloaded the picture of the four burnt Americans hanging from the bridge." It's oneupmanship, al-Muhajiroun style.

Sayful, the only married one in the group, prepares to go home to his wife and children. Before he departs, he says he has a message to deliver.

"I want to warn that the police raids - if repeated - could create a bad situation.

"Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek. If they raid our homes, it could lead to the covenant of security being broken.

"Islam allows us to retaliate. That would include" - he tugs his "Jihad" coat tight against the night air - "by violent means."

<small>[ 04-29-2005, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: lliam ]</small>
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Pope Benedict XVI

Postby lliam » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:12 am

Muslim religious leaders have accused Pope Benedict XVI of quoting anti-Islamic remarks during a speech at a German university this week.

Questioning the concept of holy war, he quoted a 14th-Century Christian emperor who said Muhammad had brought the world only "evil and inhuman" things.

A senior Pakistani Islamic scholar, Javed Ahmed Gamdi, said jihad was not about spreading Islam with the sword.

Turkey's top religious official asked for an apology for the "hostile" words.

In India-administered Kashmir, police seized copies of newspapers which reported the Pope's comments to prevent any tension.

A Vatican spokesman, Father Frederico Lombardi, said he did not believe the Pope's comments were meant as a harsh criticism of Islam.



Religious leader Ali Badda Kolu said the Pope's comments represented what he called an "abhorrent, hostile and prejudiced point of view".

Whilst Muslims might express their criticism of Islam and of Christianity, he argued, they would never defame the Holy Bible or Jesus Christ.


Seems pretty calm so far. :crazy:
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Postby lliam » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:38 am

The Labour regime’s attempts to prosecute BNP Leader Nick Griffin and party graphic designer Mark Collett for alleged incitement to racial hatred look even more like State persecution following a speech by the Pope.

The retrial of the Free Speech duo looks set to descend into an incredulous farce as the Pope joins a long and growing list of important figures who have warned of the dangers of militant Islam to the survival and security of western Europe.

Unaware of the Catholic concept of Papal infallibility over-sensitive Muslim representatives are trying to pull on western guilt strings and are calling for an apology:

“We demand that he apologises personally, and not through (Vatican) sources, to all Muslims for such a wrong interpretation," said Beirut-based Sayyed Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah, one of the world's top Shi'ite Muslim clerics.

The Muslim Brotherhood, the Arab world's largest group of political Islamists, demanded an apology from the Pope and called on the governments of Islamic countries to break relations with the Vatican if he does not make one.

Closer to home the “moderate” Muslim Council of Britain said it was “deeply disturbed” by the Pope’s remarks.

While Muslim leaders call for apologies many individual Muslims have turned to vocal and direct action. In India Muslims set alight an effigy of the Pope and angry protests have been held in Cairo while Roman Catholic churches in Muslim Pakistan have been under armed police guard after threats of violence.

Perhaps senior figures in the Church of England can now follow the Vatican and muster the courage to speak about the perils of Islam in Britain. The speech by the Pope, plus the material of various newspaper columnists and other churchmen will be added to the case notes of the Free Speech Two when the farcical retrial takes place in October.
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Postby lliam » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:28 am

Smooth talking “moderate” Muslims try to convince us non-believers that Islam is the religion of peace, a task made impossible by their co-religionists who have not heeded the peace message. In response to a quote made by Pope Benedict XVI in a speech on Tuesday Muslims have been busy burning effigies of the Pope and burning down churches, hardly the response of those who practice a religion of peace.

Two churches in the West Bank city of Nablus were attacked yesterday(15th) in fire-bombing incidents. One Anglican church was torched and an Orthodox church was also attacked. Elsewhere a youth centre run by the Greek Orthodox church in Gaza was slightly damaged by an explosion. Thousands of protestors took to the streets in Pakistan burning effigies of the Pontiff. A church in the southern Iraqi town of Basra was attacked overnight with axes and knives causing damage to the door.

The West is constantly asked to tolerate the presence of this pre-medieval desert faith but its practitioners have no understanding of tolerance themselves, no concept of free speech which allows comment and criticism of any faith, cult or political ideology, a concept which itself is in peril due to Marxist inspired political correctness and supine liberal appeasement to the fifth column of Muslims already here in the UK and in countries across western Europe.

However it should be noted that the Pope did not criticise Muslims himself, he merely quoted remarks by the 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, who wrote that everything that Muhammad had promulgated was evil and inhuman, “such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”.

The Pope’s plans to visit Turkey in November now look to be in jeopardy as senior Turkish officials claimed that they could not guarantee his safety if the trip went ahead.

Although a predominantly Muslim nation, Turkey retains a secular government but the deputy leader of the Islamic Party, Salih Kapusuz, condemned the Pope’s remarks saying that “Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini.”

The Vatican claimed that the Pope had been quoted out of context and that he had not intended to insult Islam.
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Postby Shapley » Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:09 am

Hello, Lliam,

Welcome back.

V/R
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Postby lliam » Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:11 am

Shapley wrote:Hello, Lliam,

Welcome back.

V/R
Shapley


Bless you my son. :toast:
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Postby bignaf » Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:43 am

Muslims are trying to spread their censorship over the whole world. the pope was derlivering an acdemic lecture, it should not be censored. he should be free to quote any source he wishes. the Turkish deputy's comparison to Hitler, just marginalizes what Hitler did.
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Postby GreatCarouser » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:34 am

You are all aware that Al Qaeda isued an order to Muslims not to participate in either the Palestinian elections or the Iraqi ones? I've posted a number of links on our various and sundry war, terrorism threads dealing with these fundamentalist strategies and philosophies. If you check out Al Jazeera on line you will as often as not get an interview with a fundamentalist cleric of one of the two main jihad factions espusing their beliefs. I'll post a link to something else here I posted yesterday elsewhere. It reflects on the strategy of the Iranians moreso than the Muslim Brotherhood (Al Qaeda's 'spiritual' parent organization). The site also offers bio and links about the author's credentials:

Ahmadinejad's World

Welcome back, Lliam btw
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Postby Schmeelkie » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:22 am

So, the pope basically says that radical Muslims are a violent group. In response, radical Muslims start threatening suicide bombings against the Vatican and lashing out against Catholics in general.... Um, if you don't want to be viewed as violent, shouldn't you be entering peace talks or something?

sheesh - I'd say they're not being logical, but they're not even noticing the obvious... :rolleyes:
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Postby bignaf » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:31 am

pope: you're violent.

abu-mussa: how can you say we're violnet?!?!?! I'll kill you!!!
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Postby Selma in Sandy Eggo » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:53 am

Pope Urban II may have had the right attitude about militant Islam. Deus vult, and forward the Crusade...

The popes have been holding hard onto history, and I've complained that they're stuck somewhere in the 17th or 18th century. Properly provoked, though, this one might make it back to the 11th.
>^..^<
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