Harry Potter SPOILERS

[mmichaelson]

Ok - this was Shap's idea - this thread is to discuss what happens in the latest Harry Potter book and how we think it will roll over into the last book.

I have so many things to discuss!

Snape - Harry and Ginny - the Order of the Phoenix and what will happen with them - the closing of Hogwarts - Is Dumbledore really gone? (what about the portraits in the headmaster's office - he's already got one there to inhabit)

[Shapley]

Well,

I don't think he's dead. Several things:

He had just finished telling Malfoy that the best way to hide out was to be dead, and that they could arrange it.

Harry saw "what he assumed to be Dumbledore's body" being carried up to the white tomb.

The Phoenix's lengthy lament, followed by his disappearance.

The fact that Snape seems to have gone to great lengths to ensure that none of the Order were killed in the battle. He deflected Harry's spells, but did not retaliate, despite Harry's goading him into great anger, and removed the cruciatis (sp?) curse that another death eater had placed on him.

I think Harry will find Dumbledore when he returns to the Dursley's. I had been curious from the beginning as to why Dumbledore had insisted that Harry return there once more, and that they allow it.

As for Ginny, I had always figured Harry and Hermione would get together.

I don't think Hogwarts will close. I think Dumbledore will insist that Harry return, since it holds so much interest for Voldemort. I would expect the final battle to occur there.

I suppose R.A.B. will figure prominently in the final book, but who is it? I suspect one of his old bosses, Borgin or Burkes, but I think Borgin's initials are given as H.W. I don't think I've ever seen Burkes first name or initials.

V/R
Shapley

[mmichaelson]

I came to some of those thoughts myself.

Although I disagree with the Harry/Hermione relationship. Rowling's been setting it up all along for Hermione and Ron to end up together, to short us that would suck. Plus, Ginny and Harry are sort of perfect for each other.

I don't think Snape is evil. I think he's mean, but not evil. He wouldn't let Harry do an unforgiveable spell,"No unforgiveables from you, Potter", which is odd for someone who hates Harry as much as he does. I think he's doing what he can to bring about the downfall of Voldemort, and like you, I don't think he actually killed Dumbledore. Seems strange that Voldemort is mortally aftraid of Dumbledore and has been unable to kill him yet Snape can?? All Snape had to do to fulfill the promise to Bellatrix and her sister was to at least make Voldemort think Dumbledore is dead. I think Dumbledore will be back in some way.

Tonks and Lupin? Ingenious
Bill and Fleur? Ew

Snape as the half-blood prince? A little predictable if you paid attention, but fun, nonetheless.

RAB- no clue on this end. will require much more thought.

I think some of the other kids will accompany the main three in their search. I can't see Ginny or Neville or Luna being left out. Plus, Neville will be the one to bring about the demise of Bellatrix, I am sure of it.

And, I have to admit, I'm not so sure we've seen the total end of Sirius.

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that none of our heros are animagus? Seems like all of Harry's dad's generation were, why not our kiddos?

[Shapley]

You're probably right about Ron and Hermione. I just always thought the good guy get the girl in the end, and Hermione would seem to be the prize, even if Ginny is no slouch.

RE: And, I have to admit, I'm not so sure we've seen the total end of Sirius.

I disagree here. Nearly Headless Nick himself told us, in the last book, that Sirius wouldn't return.

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that none of our heros are animagus? Seems like all of Harry's dad's generation were, why not our kiddos?

I've never give this a thought, but it is curious now that you mention it. Harry, Ron, and Hermione's friendship parallels that of his father's group in many ways, why not that one. Harry's developement is lagging behind theirs by quite a bit. I doubt that there is anyone, except perhaps Hermione, that could produce something like the "Marauders Map".

I would even say that Harry's relationsip with Malfoy somewhat parallels that of his father and Severus. There seems now to be more parallel between Malfoy and Severus than previously. His "soft side" showing during his difficulties, as well as at the very last.

I suspect that it was Dumbledore's intention that Malfoy appear to succeed to save both Severus and Malfoy. Plus, while appearing to be dead, he will be free to continue the search for the remaining horcruxes unincumbered by other duties.

There seems to speculation among some of those I've spoken to around here that Harry will turn out to be a horcrux. I thought that for a short while, but I don't think so now, although I really don't have any logical reason to think it except that I don't think Rowling wants her plot to be so obvious. What do you think?

V/R
Shapley

<small>[ 07-21-2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Shapley ]</small>

[mmichaelson]

I think the thought of Harry as a Horcrux is very intriguing, but I don't think it could be - if you read the prophecy - "Neither can live while the other survives" - it seems to say that only ONE can survive. Certainly Voldemort can survive without the part of his soul that would be in Harry if he were a horcrux, but I don't think that Harry could survive with part of Voldemort's soul in him.

I don't think Malfoy is evil (you are right on as far as the parallel between Malfoy and Snape is concerned). I think he mainly went with it to save his own skin and that of his family. He's vile, I'll give him that, but evil? I don't think so. And Dumbledore really got through to him (Malfoy)right before Snape performed the Avada Kedavra curse.

I hadn't realized just how far behind these kids were from the generation before them, but you're so right. The Marauders' Map would be something that very few of them could pull off, with the exception of Hermione.

As much as it pains me to think of it, I think Harry might possibly die at the end of book 7. And it's hard for me to even begin to think about all the deaths that will occur in the last book. My money is on one of the Weasley parents or their whiney brother Percy.

I guess we'll see in a couple of years.

[BigJon@Work]

Can you all let me in on what language you are speaking?

[mmichaelson]

Jon - I take it you have never read a Harry Potter book???

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

BigJon - they're speaking Wizardish. Mostly, we speak Mugglish. It can be confusing <big grin>

[Shapley]

Saxy,

RE:I hadn't realized just how far behind these kids were from the generation before them, but you're so right. The Marauders' Map would be something that very few of them could pull off, with the exception of Hermione.

Personally, I think that, if they hadn't found the Marauder's Map, Fred and George would have invented it. However, among Harry, Ron, & Hermoine there seems to be a lack of inventiveness inconsistent with the generation before them. Even the Half-Blood Prince was way ahead of them. Without his notes Harry couldn't have made it through class.

I have to admit that I didn't figure out the Half-Blood Prince's identity, as you apparently did. I was hung on Hermoine's guess that he was a woman, based on the handwriting, and the fact that the book was nearly fifty years old, which would put it near Voldemort's time, rather than Snape's. (Of Course we had already been told that Voldemort was not the Half-Blood Prince, so I knew it wasn't him). It did occur to me that the notes could have been written long after the books publication date, which it apparently was (Snape wore hand-me-downs, so it figures the books would be, too). I still have trouble believing that, after six years in his classes, none of them could recognize his handwriting. If I had had a male teacher that wrote with a feminine flourish, it would have been quite the joke in our school.

Hi BigJon,

We're speaking Potterish. If you need definitions, try here:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/index-2.html

V/R
Shapley

[RC]

I thoroughly enjoyed the chapter in which Dumbledore brings home the meaning of the prophecy to Harry; Hammering the point that the prophecy only had any merit because Voldemort believed it. Now it is Harry's choice to face the prophecy not because it is destiny but because it needs to be done and is the right thing to do, thus giving Harry the strength to forge ahead without a protector. I also believe this is an important foreshadowing.

I suspected it but I knew then that Dumbledore was going to bite the big one in the last chapter.

I pretty much figured out who the Half Blood Prince was when Snape was suddenly not teaching potions anymore and Harry had the book from Snapes old classroom. Snape obviously excelled as a student. It just fit him perfectly.

Riddle me this though; Why WAS Snape finally allowed into the Dark Arts position? Just because Slughorn was afraid of it? I'm not buying it. Rowling could've carried the plot without this particular switch to Dark Arts.

And gees! Someone tell me what it was that Dumbledore had, (or thought he had), over Snape that convinced him that Snape was to be trusted. Dumbledore felt sorry for him? I don't buy that story either. Think about it, Dumbledore felt sorry for Tom RIddle too but never trusted him. Dumbledore was no fool. If Snape is as evil as he is portrayed in the last chapter, Dumbledore would've smelled it on 'im. I think there is more story to be told about Dumbledore's and Snape's relationship.

There is more to be told about Snape altogether. He is directly connected to RAB.

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!! How many years between books?

[Shapley]

I think putting Snape in charge of Dark Arts was part of Dumbledore's plan. If he now has total trust in Severus, then placing him in the Dark Arts Office will give him insight into exactly what it is that Voldemort is wanting there. Gaining access to the Dark Arts chair seems to be crucial to Voldemort's plan, but why? What can there possibly be learned or obtained there that cannot be obtained anywhere else?

If they hadn't smashed all the time turners we could send you ahead to get a copy of book seven.

V/R
Shapley

[mmichaelson]

My guess:

RAB = Regulus Black

[Shapley]

Saxy,

Could be. Regulus did try to leave the death eaters. We'll have to wait and see.

V/R
Shapley

[BigJon@Work]

Originally posted by Saxy Buff:
Jon - I take it you have never read a Harry Potter book???

I haven't read a book for pleasure in about a decade. I've read a few for work assignments. I read trade journals, magazines related to my racing hobby, a daily newspaper and the internet. I don't have any reading time left to read books for pleasure. I know how you do it Saxy, but how do the rest of your guys with technical jobs, families and a hobby find time to read books for pleasure.

And no, I don't watch TV either, except for when races are on.

BigJon

<small>[ 07-22-2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: BigJon@Work ]</small>

[mmichaelson]

ROFL - hey wait! I have a family, a job and hobbies! I just read really fast!

[RC]

Jon, it's a matter of priorities good man.
Honestly, it's been a rough week of staying up late!

[Shapley]

BigJon,

You gotta take time for yourself. I don't watch much TV, but I try to squeeze in a half-hour every night for reading for pleasure. Usually sea books, which are my favorite.

Of course, this week I far exceeded my half-hour/day quota, so the yard work had to suffer. Fortunately, the wife is in Hawaii, so she doesn't notice. It's going to be a busy Saturday, though.

V/R
Shapley

[treebeau]

My memory is a little foggy, but I have a few questions. First a comment. A few times in this book it has been mentioned that all the time turners had been smashed.

1. Was this during the big fight scene at the Ministry during book 5?
2. Whatever happened to the one that Hermione used in one of the earlier books? I thought she borrowed it from Dumbledore.
3. What does it look like? Anything like a locket?

Seems to me that "time" is mentioned quite a bit in the last chapter of book 7, AND so is the locket.

Regards,
Tim B.

[mmichaelson]

The time turners are never described in great detail - watch movie 3 if you want to see a decent looking one.

I don't think we were ever told that the turners were destroyed until this book. And I think they even destroyed the one Hermione used.

[treebeau]

Next, I think Dumby isn't dead. I believe that he and Snape may have made one of those unbreakable vows, which would make him certain of Snape's loyalty. I think that he and Snape were play acting his death. He froze Harry so that Harry would not be able to interfere with the act. And I think that if you were to be very close to Dumby, he may even smell a little of a goat's stomach, if you catch my drift.

Regards,
Tim B.