Building a Catholic Community

[DavidS]

Q: Why did the chicken cross only half the road and send its friend to the Gulag?
A: Because it's a Rhode Island Red.

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Rhode Island Red!!!

A new chicken joke. Thank you.

(Climbing back onto chair now. )

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by DavidEB310:
I wonder how welcome we would be in that Catholic Community?

Y'all already parsed "Catholic" and "catholic"( I didn't know the difference until I went Episcopalian...............from Conservative Baptist, no less....), but here's my understanding of how well you would be accepted by the Catholic community:
In addition to being baptized into the Roman Catholic church(no, other protestant baptisms, even Episcopalian and Lutheran, don't count), ALL of your prior marriages have to be annulled by the Catholic church, and they don't do that lightly. If they don't see sufficient cause to annul even one of your marriages, your present marriage won't be recognized, much less even performed by the Catholic church.

According to my former rector, my first marriage probably wouldn't have been annulled; the second, however, would have been with all due haste.

<small>[ 03-02-2006, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: OperaTenor ]</small>

[piqaboo]

Did you say something?

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

How welcome?

Well, going on my own experience, they'd be fine with you as long as you didn't act protestent. Which I'm sure you eventually would.

I'm another Lutheran (lots of Sven and Ole and Lena jokes been told on this board!) and Gil was raised Catholic. We attended Mass for a long time. Fine by me, I ignored the Catholic rules that I thought were silly, took communion as I saw fit, let the priest make happy assumptions and never pointed out where he was wrong. This avoided all the issues that OT just went over.

About the time Deb stopped coloring on the bulletin, and occasionally started listening to the homily, I drug 'em all down the road to the Lutheran church. I drew the line at some young fella calling himself "Father" when he wasn't, and telling me how I was supposed to vote. And the Pope and I never did see eye to eye on a few things...

[Shapley]

OT,

Actually, the Protestant baptism will cover the basic water-on-the-head part of Baptism, but they would have to go through Confirmation, which is the process underwhich adults confirm their beliefs in the tenets of the church.

As you stated, the second and third marriage annulments would be a piece of cake, since they wouldn't be considered valid in the eyes of the Church anyway, but the first marriage would require a lengthy annulment process.

V/R
Shapley

[OperaTenor]

Originally posted by Shapley:

Actually, the Protestant baptism will cover the basic water-on-the-head part of Baptism, but they would have to go through Confirmation, which is the process underwhich adults confirm their beliefs in the tenets of the church.

So, as a confirmed Episcopalian I can receive communion in a Catholic eucharist? If so, that's news to me, along with every other Catholic I've ever met.

Do Lutherans have confirmations?

[Shapley]

OT,

No, I only said a new Baptism wouldn't be required. The Catholics only recognize the Catholic and Orthodox Eucharist as valid.

If you've been Baptized in another church, and you seek to become Catholic, a new Baptism is not required, only a Confirmation of the Baptismal vows.

I'm not sure if the Lutherans have a Confirmation or not, but I suspect that they do. Hopefully one of the Lutherans on the board will answer that one.

V/R
Shapley

[Junebug]

"As you stated, the second and third marriage annulments would be a piece of cake, since they wouldn't be considered valid in the eyes of the Church anyway, but the first marriage would require a lengthy annulment process."

Now Shapley- with this scenerio if only the clergy had a law degree.....imagine the revenue!

[Shapley]

Junebug,

I agree. Actually, annulments are one of the areas I disagree with church policy. They've basically made the annulment the Catholic equivalent of a divorce, and some dioceses (sp?) grant them almost as readily. Personally, I think it's time for the Church to recognize divorce and end the charade that annulment has become, but that's just my opinion.

V/R
Shapley

[Junebug]

Shapley,
Now you've made me wonder about financial motivation and I hate to be cynical- but for annulments, does the church get the money whereas for divorces, the lawyers and courts make out with the bucks? What does the average divorce cost vs an annulment?

In the institution of matrimony and divorce there are dollars to be made/spent n'est pas?
June

[DavidEB310]

To answer a couple of Questions:

Yes, Lutherans do have a confirmation. I was confirmed in the Lutheran Church when I was 13 years old, at which point I could participate in the Holy Communion. My daughters, who are Catholic get confirmed at 16, yet had their first communion at 8.

Now, I'm an ELCA Lutheran, the Missouri Lutheran sect may have different rules.

As an ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America), I have never had a problem participating in the Catholic Eucharist. In fact, I was married in the Catholic Church the first time and my Lutheran Minister was welcome to perform a portion of the Wedding Mass, he just wasn't allowed to accept the vows, the Priest accepted the vows because it was a Catholic Ceremony.

Also, my dad was raised Baptist, and I was horrified when the alter opened to a hidden wading pool where the teenagers entered and then were dunked while, "He's Got the Whole World In His Hands," was sung again and again in Chorus. I'm glad I had the droplets on my little Lutheran head as a baby.

As for Anulments -- here's a great one. My first wife received an anulment from the Catholic Church so she could marry the Catholic whom she was sleeping with while we were separated. Guess it didn't matter that we had two daughters (and I was a Lutheran), because it was granted so they could get married in the Catholic Church. I understand it was a hefty financial "donation" to the church. So basically, does that mean that my daughters and I didn't exist?

Maybe things haven't changed since Martin Luther nailed the 95 Theses to the doors of the Catholic Church? --

http://www.luther.de/en/95thesen.html

Okay, that's a bit harsh.

[Junebug]

I don't understand this DavidEB. On what grounds could the church possibly have annuled your marriage, esp if there were 2 children? Will you have a catholic ceremony this time around?
June

[Shapley]

David,

As I've said, I think the annulment process is broken. The Church is so intent on sticking to the concept of not recognizing divorce that they've stretched the definition of annulment to the point of being absurd.

For what it's worth, the Church says that the process of annulment has no effect on the legitimacy of the children. Again, a bit of a stretch.

It is my understanding that the Vatican is taking a hard look at how annulments are being handled, so there may be changes down the pike. Annulments are dealt with at the diocesan level, so I'm not sure if the problems I've observed, and which appear to be similar in Rhode Island, are the same everywhere in the Church.

V/R
Shapley

[DavidEB310]

Actually, that Anulment took place in Upstate NY (Syracuse Diocese).

JuneBug, as for a church wedding this time...nope, we're eloping, probably to Vegas for an intimate quickie inexpensive wedding. I've had 3 prior and she 2; we just want to share the moment together, and use our money for a big vacation or whatever. Screw the wedding photographers who want $1500-2000 for a basic package, the florists who suggest basic flowers at $2000 and then there's catereres, bakers, or dining accomodations. With the divorce rate what it is -- WHAT IS EVERYONE THINKING?!? Thank Goodness, I'm no longer young and stupid (however, young enough at 42 next Friday).

[Junebug]

No one could blame you for skipping the grand wedding thing, with the average cost of even a modest wedding you all would have spent over $75,000 on 5 weddings and would have about 12.5 children to plan on attending!

Vegas is a Great Idea! I saw on the travel channel Las Vegas weddings-one where a JP dressed as Pharoh married the couple, who were carried in Egyptian style. Or Elvis is a good standby- I would skip Wayne Newton though!
June

[Selma in Sandy Eggo]

Originally posted by Shapley:
...not sure if the Lutherans have a Confirmation or not, but I suspect that they do. Hopefully one of the Lutherans on the board will answer that one...

Answer would be Yes, we do.

[treebeau]

Originally posted by DavidEB310:
...Thank Goodness, I'm no longer young and stupid (however, young enough at 42 next Friday)...

You're right! That is the age when you figure out the ultimate answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything!!

Regards,
Tim B.

[DavidEB310]

YES; The Answer is 42!

touche!

[shostakovich]

Since this was once about a Catholic community in Florida, I saw Monaghan on CBS this morning. It turns out that non-Catholics are welcome, even people with NO religion. Just FYI.
Relieved